Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)

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Re: Pushpin map of the world's FAs (discussion from March)[]

Map of Featured Articles with locations

Hello, a little update to everyone involved in the discussion "Pushpin map of the world's FAs" from March, @Sdkb, Jéské Couriano, Pppery, The wub, Donald Albury, NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, TheDJ, Agathoclea, Whatamidoing (WMF)):

As of yesterday, it is possible to use geopoints from Wikidata in Kartographer maps, via QID or SPARQL query. -- Best, Johanna Strodt (WMDE) (talk) 10:09, 27 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

How cool, thanks very much Johanna! And please pass on my thanks to those who worked on this improvement, I'm sure it will be useful for a lot of other applications. Only just saw this as I didn't get a notification about your message for some reason. I had a go at making a map for the featured articles, pinging Sdkb as the person who originally requested it. the wub "?!" 23:25, 2 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Amazing; thanks so much! I'm going to go ahead and add it to WP:FA. A future improvement might be to color-code the icons by type. {{u|Sdkb}}talk 22:38, 3 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for your replies. I've passed the feedback on to our team. -- Best, Johanna Strodt (WMDE) (talk) 08:41, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Dumber search?[]

When I search for the word "alarmism" [1], I get hits for "alarm", which is not what I want. I know what I want and I try to tell the search algorithm what I want, but it thinks it is smarter than me and knows better. If I try to exclude "alarm", I get no hits, probably because that also excludes "alarmism".

Is there a way to stop the search algorithm from dunning-krugering like that? --Hob Gadling (talk) 15:57, 27 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You can try something like Special:Search/Alarmism insource:/alarmism/. Add i to the end if you also want to include Alarmism, etc. Certes (talk) 16:08, 27 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Hob Gadling: It's better to use quotation marks like you did in the post but not the search. insource:/.../ is called a regex search. It's expensive and may not have time to search all pages. It helps if you combine it with a normal search like alarmism insource:/alarmism/ but for this purpose, you can just use "alarmism". See more at Help:Searching. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:12, 27 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ah! Thank you both! I did not think of Help:Searching or of quotation marks. --Hob Gadling (talk) 16:22, 27 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This may be a goofy question, but: Why does WP return results that don't include the searched-for term (especially if the term is in quotes—which, on most search engines, indicates it's mandatory)? If that happened to me, I'd assume no pages existed with the searched-for term, but the search feature was trying to be helpful. – AndyFielding (talk) 01:03, 28 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@AndyFielding: Help:Searching#Stem matching says: "Search results will include the roots of words included in the search string, and their various tenses (plural, past-tense, etc.). If stem matching is not wanted, use double quotes around the word or phrase you want to match verbatim." Do you have an example where a search term in quotes returns results without the term? PrimeHunter (talk) 01:15, 28 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It's interesting to me that insource has been shown in examples, but what it does has not actually been mentioned, and it's pretty critical to know whether or not it's appropriate. IMO, the first thing you should consider is whether you want to search the page source or the rendered text. The default is the rendered text. Use insource: only if you want to search the page source. Also, it seems that Wikipedia search treats the content as a series of words, and delimiters (the characters that separate words) are not considered, e.g. unless you're using a regex search, search terms "foo/bar" and "foo+bar" will return identical results. Keep in mind also that Wikipedia search isn't google search, it's not going to guess at what you might really have wanted. Fabrickator (talk) 01:50, 28 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

AndyFieldingCertes only suggested alarmism insource:/alarmism/ as a way to get an exact match (quotes is a better way here). A regex search insource:/.../ cannot be used on the rendered result. By the way, insource:/alarmism/ doesn't find Alarmism while "alarmism" does find it. Add i like insource:/alarmism/i for a case insensitive regex search. It goes from 97 to 134 results. "alarmism" gives 129 results. The five "missing" pages can be seen with alarmism insource:/alarmism/i -"alarmism". Three only has "alarmism" in the source and two say "Alarmism's" which is treated as one word and not found by "alarmism". PrimeHunter (talk) 02:25, 28 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Quoted text probably gives what you need here and is much more efficient than my original suggestion of insource:. There is more help at mw:Help:CirrusSearch, and an explanation of the very limited and non-standard regular expression syntax here. Certes (talk) 08:36, 28 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for your thoughtful explanations. I may have misinterpreted the OP's post, thinking his quotation marks were literal. (Discussing search strings, perhaps italics would've been a better idea—or putting the search terms on their own indented lines?) – AndyFielding (talk) 12:35, 2 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template:Television network original programming category puts cats inside themselves[]

Gonnym (talk · contribs) isn't around much these days, so I'm asking here. Under certain circumstances, {{Television network original programming category}} puts categories inside themselves unless it's configured properly; twice in the past Gonnym has fixed up such problems as requested at User talk:Gonnym/Archive 3#Template:Television network original programming category, User talk:Gonnym/Archive 4#Television network original programming category and User talk:Gonnym/Archive 4#Zee Marathi Original Programming, but didn't explain what actualy needed doing (there is an expln of sorts on the last one, but it's not at all clear). Now Category:Fox Kids is suffering the same problem: it's inside itself (reported at Wikipedia:Database reports/Self-categorized categories). Does anybody know what needs doing to the template in order fix the cat? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:34, 28 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I have added |no_cat=1.[2] PrimeHunter (talk) 20:45, 28 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I have also made a more general solution which automatically omits adding a category to itself.[3] PrimeHunter (talk) 21:05, 28 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
In general, if you want to prevent a template from categorizing pages, try |no_cat=1 before asking for help. This frequently will solve the problem. Animal lover |666| 08:04, 29 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The param is mentioned in the templatedata, but is otherwise undocumented. The impression that I got was that it concerned parent cats, which I wanted left alone. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 08:29, 29 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It does concern a parent cat. Adding the cat itself (usually unintentionally) is a special case of a parent cat. no_cat is a non-standard parameter name only used in this template. nocat is the common name recommended at Wikipedia:Category suppression. Category suppression usually suppresses all parent categories but in {{Television network original programming category}} it only suppresses one of two. That is confusing when it's undocumented. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:14, 29 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I have changed the non-standard no_cat to nocat in the template [4] and the six calls which used it. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:26, 30 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Chinese Wikipedia[]

I cannot log on to Chinese Wikipedia, help please? Taiwanrailtransportfan (talk) 23:50, 29 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

What goes wrong? Can you view pages at zh:? PrimeHunter (talk) 00:04, 30 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, but not logged in. The problem is if I want to with my account there - it's not possible now, since I can't log in. Taiwanrailtransportfan (talk) 00:06, 30 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
But what happens when you try to log in? "I cannot" and "it's not possible" are very vague. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:15, 30 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The action gets cancelled, according to Chinese Wikipedia, as a "precaution against session hijacking." Taiwanrailtransportfan (talk) 00:20, 30 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Try reloading a zh: page with Ctrl+F5. Try logging out here first. If it doesn't work, try another browser or device if possible. If that works but you want to use your current device and browser, try deleting cookies for wikipedia.org and wikimedia.org. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:37, 30 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm browsing in guest mode, so I don't think I have cookies in the first place. Is there a possible way to log in? Is my username an issue? Taiwanrailtransportfan (talk) 22:15, 30 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Taiwanrailtransportfan you are not able to create an account at zhwiki because of your username. I can't give you any more details then that. Perhaps there is a part of your username that may be problematic on zhwiki. You can request a username change at Special:GlobalRenameRequest. I don't know of ways for you to contact the zhwiki admins by email, but that could also be an option. — xaosflux Talk 22:23, 30 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Xaosflux: Are you sure of that? It would be an odd error message for that. I can create (didn't save it) the user page zh:User:Taiwanrailtransportfan but not the article zh:Taiwanrailtransportfan. zh:MediaWiki:Titleblacklist says (?!User:|User talk:).*(Taiwan).* <autoconfirmed> This disallows the page name Taiwanrailtransportfan but only outside userspace. zh:Special:Listusers/Taiwan shows many usernames with "Taiwan", also from 2022. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:22, 30 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@PrimeHunter yes I am, the condition that would have precluded this has been around for about 5 months. — xaosflux Talk 23:32, 30 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
As far as the error message goes, perhaps there is some translation messed up somewhere, it appears that it should have a fairly generic denial message. — xaosflux Talk 23:36, 30 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Xaosflux: Thanks for the explanation. The 2022 usernames are from January to April. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:39, 30 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template:Code and Too many expensive function calls[]

Comparison of programming languages (basic instructions) is in Category:Pages with script errors. Searching the article shows that "Lua error: too many expensive function calls" occurs twice. However, that is misleading because preview reports "Expensive parser function count 683/500" so there is a big problem. It turns out that {{code}} is used 671 times and each call uses one expensive function due to use of syntaxhighlight (and there are 8 direct calls to syntaxhighlight). Assuming that the article is kept at its current size, are there any suggestions for a simple replacement for {{code}}? An example with a simple argument is:

That could be replaced with

The nowiki is not needed in this case but my guess is that lots of the more complex examples would need it and making a manual choice 671 times would not be desirable. Is there anything better? Johnuniq (talk) 04:54, 30 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Can we teach {{code}} to not invoke <syntaxhighlight> if lang=text (probably this should be done on the MediaWiki side too)? Also the last few comments on T316858 are relevant here. Legoktm (talk) 05:12, 30 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Legoktm, I've hastily done this with {{Code/sandbox}}— Qwerfjkltalk 10:16, 30 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Expensive parser functions[]

C Sharp syntax has had this problem since yesterday. It has not been ed in months so something else must have changed. It uses {{C sharp}} a lot, but that hasn't changed either. MB 16:30, 2 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This is phab:T316858/#Template:Code and Too many expensive function calls; <syntaxhighlight>...</syntaxhighlight> is now expensive. * Pppery * it has begun... 16:33, 2 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

And now Comparison of programming languages (basic instructions). Johnuniq (talk) 05:47, 3 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Page moves without moving archives[]

In the past 3-4 months, I encountered 2 instances of page moves without moving talk page archives. And had to do that myself. In the older case, it took less than a day to find it out, in the latter case, it took over a month, and lowercase sigmabot had already created brand new archives at new title. I wonder how prevalent it is and what can be done to prevent it. Note that move subpages option is available only to page movers and administrators because of its disruption potential. CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {CX}) 14:18, 30 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Previously the archiving would have stopped after the move because the archive parameter no longer pointed to a subpage per User:MiszaBot/config#Parameters explained. If movers forget to move old archives then they usually also forget to update archive. Since July Aidan9382-Bot by Aidan9382 has automatically updated the parameter [5] without checking for old archives. The archive issue is mentioned in Category:Pages where archive parameter is not a subpage where the bot finds the pages but it wasn't brought up in Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Aidan9382-Bot 2. Maybe the bot should check for archives under the old archive value and do something else like flag it for or attention. It probably shouldn't move archives automatically. A counter (the current archive number) above 1 is also a strong hint that there may be archives somewhere. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:38, 30 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@PrimeHunter: Thanks for the notice, I'd be glad to make this a feature of the bot. Question is, how do you suggest implementing this? Currently, my bot has a safety feature where if it 1) Can't find existing archives (Specifically archives 1 and archives counter) and 2) Notices the page already has some other subpage, it'll refuse to fix it and leaves a notice for another person (usually me) to clear it up manually. This was so it would never try to do anything as wild as this spectacular fail. Perhaps removing the second check and just having the first one would create a check like you suggested. Would that work for you? Aidan9382 (talk) 04:46, 1 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@PrimeHunter: Thanks. I was wondering if it would help if a bot could compile a list of talk page subpages whose parent page is a redirect. But that has it's own limitations, it would leave out pages like this one (3rd example) which was a wrongly created talk page because one of the mover moved the article without talk page, and thus the actual talk page became orphaned. CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {CX}) 08:15, 1 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Aidan9382: It sounds like you check more than I thought. Does "Can't find existing archives" and "page already has some other subpage" refer to the wrong archive value or the current page name? Why did the bot make the I linked [6] when there was an archive at Talk:List of rivers by length/Archive 1? CX Zoom moved the archive later and posted here. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:41, 1 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@PrimeHunter: Let me elaborate - the bot checks the current location of the page for any existing archive subpage, not any previous name of the page due to reasons. My proposed idea is that I could have it so the bot wouldn't fix an archive if it found no existing subpages, which would imply they either havent moved over yet or dont exist, which would fix your issue here and allow a human to check it instead. Sorry if my explenation was a little poor. Aidan9382 (talk) 14:12, 1 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Aidan9382: If you don't want to check for archives at the wrong archive and are willing to examine the extra cases manually then that sounds OK. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:28, 1 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@PrimeHunter: Dont worry, I used to do it manually before hand - its the whole reason I made the bot after a while. Anyways, the change is now  Done, so I'll see how this goes over the next few days. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Aidan9382 (talk) 14:34, 1 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Aidan9382: Thanks. And thanks for working on Category:Pages where archive parameter is not a subpage. I made the category and automatic population [7] but only fixed a few pages. There were originally more than 2700. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:15, 1 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ing glitch which moves cursor, disallows my use of capital letters[]

"II())NWhen I am ing in Wikipedia sometimes, nowadays, it seems I am allowed to use capital letters some of the time, as here where I have used "When" and "I". But some of the time, even within the same where I have successfully used some capital letters, I am disallowed: when I type a capital letter the cursor is moved to the beginning of the of the posting. I think this may occur only when I open a new discussion section on a Talk page, as here, by selecting the "+" option, which brings me into some kind of source mode with "Source" highlighted (rather than showing "Visual" highlighted). But it is different than regular source mode in that a--my posting will end by selecting "Add topic" and b--a continuously updated preview shows below. As opposed to if I am adding (in source mode) to an already-started discussion, where I can see a preview only by requesting it, and my posting will end by selecting "Publish changes". Sometimes the only way I can proceed is to use lower-case letters only. so i would be coming across more informally than i intend. I'm not sure, but the glitch may kick off only when I go back within the text I have already written, say I went back to change "nowadays" to "Nowadays". Then the cursor would move to the beginning and put "N" there, so this section would start "NWhen", while the word would have been changed to "owadays". Apparently also typing a parenthesis will do the same, because in this i tried that. the gibberish word which now starts this discussion is the result of cursor moving there. in this it has become impossible to type a capital letter or a quote mark or a parenthesis.

What gives? Is there something in my account which needs to be changed? --Doncram (talk) 18:27, 30 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Doncram: Are you using a mobile device? CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {CX}) 20:12, 30 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
CX Zoom, I am not on a mobile phone. I'm on an Acer "Spin 3" laptop, apparently running Windows 11 ("Windows Update" says that Windows 11, Version 22H2 is coming soon). --Doncram (talk) 20:51, 30 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Doncram, you're using the New Topic tool in mw:Help:DiscussionTools. I think you're the second or third person to report this problem this year.
The first question is whether you have the GoogleTrans gadget enabled. If so, disabling that should solve the problem.[8]
If not, the second question is whether any part of this description sounds familiar. If so, I'm not sure how to fix it, but I have experienced it myself (usually in Firefox/Mac). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 00:32, 1 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes there have been some mildly irritating mini-popups opening up, which I suppose were Google translation gadget offers to translate a given word like "owadays" (after the "n" was deleted by me from "nowadays", then I hit shift-n to try to enter "N") to some other language... I think it was sometimes offering to translate to Vietnamese!!! I simply did not understood what that was, and the mini-popups might have closed on their own and gone away. I suppose I did not describe them above because I didn't have the vocabulary to do so. I see now at my User preferences that indeed my user preferences show the feature is turned on ( "GoogleTrans: open a translation popup for the selected text or the word under the cursor when pushing the shift button". ) I did not knowingly turn that on. The mini-popup seems like a weird little thing, which would just translate a single word, from English to some other language? Yes, I was pushing the shift button to try to type (N) or quote mark (") or parenthesis "(" or ")".
Recently, however, I was interested to try to translate some full articles from Norwegian and French wikipedias, and I think i looked up Wikipedia:Translation first and then followed link to Wikipedia:Content translation tool, where per instructions I clicked the "blue button" labelled "Go to Special:ContentTranslation" and selected "Try it now!". I did succeed in translating and "publishing" one or two articles. I suppose that the blue button thing changed my User preference on that GoogleTrans gadget? At user preferences, I have just now turned it off, and I assume that will fix my problem raised here.
I am actually confused now about how I did successfully launch and use a big translation tool which set up side-by-side blocks of text from the source article, for me to translate from Norwegian or French into English ... maybe I was able to start up an article's translation when I was at the article in the Norwegian or French language Wikipedia? But anyhow I did not understand I was also enabling this small one-word-at-a-time thing. And now it is turned off and I dunno if i can find my way back to the one or two article translations I had left in progress. Maybe I will have to change the user preference back, in order to see/find my translations in progress? But that is a different problem than I posed here. Thanks, Whatamidoing (WMF) and all others here. --Doncram (talk) 02:40, 1 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

HotDefaultSort setting[]

I've noticed that User:BrandonXLF/HotDefaultSort sets {{DEFAULTSORT}} in a manner that omits the word "list" when this may be desirable in some categories. E.g. at List of existing technologies predicted in science fiction the defaultsort is set at "Existing technologies predicted in science fiction", even though sorting as "list" is desirable in non-list categories to show that a given page is a list rather than article. Because of that I personally favor manual setting of sortkeys depending on category. Should HotDefaultSort be amended in that regard? Brandmeistertalk 16:05, 2 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Brandmeister, you should discuss this with @BrandonXLF at User talk:BrandonXLF. There is no technical problem here, so this isn't the right place. — Qwerfjkltalk 17:14, 2 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Actually, this was done manually, nothing to do with HotDefaultSort. You can instead discuss this with the or that added the DEFAULTSORT. (Sorry for the ping, BrandonXLF.) — Qwerfjkltalk 17:22, 2 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yep, that was me. I was sorting through stub articles and probably made some s that don't coordinate with the organization of some categories. Please do re- to reflect that organization; my only request is that the lists don't get tagged as stubs. Also, thanks for the idea that lists are not articles, which hadn't occurred to me. Her Pegship (?) 18:34, 2 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Technically, lists are articles. All pages in mainspace are articles apart from dabs, redirects, the Main Page and any other exceptions I forgot. Certes (talk) 18:38, 2 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ok, I've adjusted sortkeys. The summary said "using Hot Default Sort", so I thought it was done automatically and was agreed before. Brandmeistertalk 19:29, 2 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Brandmeister, typically, fully automatic ing is done by bots. HotDefaultSort is a semi-automatic tool for modifying DEFAULTSORTs. — Qwerfjkltalk 19:53, 2 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Amazon Kindle Compatibility[]

Amazon Kindle: a good device for reading. The Wkipedia: a lot of articles.

I know the browser is experimental, but I think Wikipedia should become more bare bones, so the kindle could run it better.

Best Regards Anon — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.91.165.192 (talk) 18:59, 2 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Well, ok, I guess. 50.74.165.98 (talk) 19:32, 2 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Which Kindle model are you referring too? Kindle Fire models have the Silk Browser, and my Kindle Fire has the Wikipedia App installed. Both work well for reading Wikipedia. I agree that the browser on the original Kindle was very clunky. Wikipedia currently supports both desktop and mobile versions. - Donald Albury 21:44, 2 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Watchlist glitch[]

The page Patty Loveless is on my watchlist. But for some reason, the watchlist is only showing s made by me and not by others (for instance, it's not showing the by GünniX on October 1). Anyone know what's going on? Ten Pound Hammer(What did I screw up now?) 01:04, 3 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The other recent s (and some of yours) are marked minor. If "Hide minor s from the watchlist" is enabled at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-watchlist then disable it. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:42, 3 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Automatic xmbox template dependent on namespace[]

Hi, is there a xmbox template that changes the mbox type depending on the namespace, for example, ambox for article, cmbox for categories and so on automatically, with the same text, image and other parameters. CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {CX}) 11:43, 3 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@CX Zoom: That's {{mbox}}, I think. -- John of Reading (talk) 12:14, 3 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks, I think this one is it. CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {CX}) 12:30, 3 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Coolest Tool Award 2022: Call for nominations[]

The fourth ion of the Coolest Tool Award welcomes your nominations! What is your favorite Wikimedia related software tool? Please submit your favorite tools by October 12, 2022! The awarded projects will be announced and showcased in a virtual ceremony in December.


MediaWiki message delivery 18:30, 3 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hiding certain images[]

Hi. I need help hiding certain images. Tried using "importScript", "mw.loader.load", and "iusc" and even tried a :. It still says error on bottom in box. I'm trying to create Special:MyPage/common.js Cwater1 (talk) 21:53, 3 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

For context, see this discussion at the Teahouse. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 22:33, 3 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That is the discussion I started. Cwater1 (talk) 00:27, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I just noticed that I didn't link it to the teahouse. Sorry. Cwater1 (talk) 00:43, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Protected request[]

See MediaWiki talk:Titleblacklist-forbidden-#Protected request on 2 October 2022 Railtransportfan (talk) 22:15, 3 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Displaying 0–0 as 0 %, instead of —[]

Hello, I was wondering, whether it's possible to modify the code of the following template so it displays the following win-loss percentage as 0%, instead of a dash ? Best, Qwerty284651 (talk) 23:01, 3 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Why would you want to? --Trovatore (talk) 00:16, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Qwerty284651: That's bad math. See division by zero. – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:17, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Trovatore and Jonesey95: I know it's bad math, but this format is primarily used for games/set win % in ATP Finals tournament as it's common practice in those situations. Would be nice to have it display the 0%, instead of -, regardless of it being bad math or not. Can you give me a few coding pointers, or what? Qwerty284651 (talk) 00:43, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
0-0 is already treated as a special case with explicit result &nbsp;–&nbsp; so all you would have to do is replace that with 0%. But the template is used in 2622 articles and 0% would probably look wrong or dumb in a lot of them. If it's only wanted in certain articles like ATP Finals then the code could make the result depend on whether at least one of certain strings appear in the page name. For example {{#ifexpr:{{#invoke:string|find|{{PAGENAME}}|ATP Finals}}+{{#invoke:string|find|{{PAGENAME}}|WTA Finals}}|0%|&nbsp;–&nbsp;}}. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:57, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Rather than hardcode page names into the template, I feel it is preferable to have a parameter to control the output. isaacl (talk) 02:09, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That could enable any displayed value with {{{none|&nbsp;–&nbsp;}}}, e.g. called with none=0%, or an empty none= to display nothing. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:29, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
So just replace &nbsp;–&nbsp; with {{{none|&nbsp;–&nbsp;}}} and it should work or would I need to make any other changes/modifications? Qwerty284651 (talk) 03:02, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@PrimeHunter, using none as a param for 0–0, when none=0%, {{#ifeq:{{{none|{{&nbsp;–&nbsp;}}}|no||0%}} isn't working. See here. What am I doing wrong? Qwerty284651 (talk) 04:23, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That code is all wrong. Just make the replacement in your 03:02 post, nothing else. That should work if calls in relevant articles like ATP Finals add |none=0% to say they want that displayed instead of &nbsp;–&nbsp;. I haven't examined whether {{Tennis win percentage}} is called indirectly via other templates which need updating if 0% should be displayed. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:37, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@PrimeHunter:, the code works, finally. I replaced it as you said and then added parameter none=0% to the second template to invoke it. Thank you very much. Qwerty284651 (talk) 12:24, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@PrimeHunter param update. The added parameter was causing 0–0 to display as 0% even without the param being added via {{twlp}}, meaning all 20,000+ pages with the {{tennis win percentage}} transcluded were displaying it 0% instead of as –, so I resorted to other alternatives for this issue. Anyway, thanks for helping me, albeit unsuccessful on my end. Qwerty284651 (talk) 20:20, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Qwerty284651: No, it wouldn't have displayed as 0% in any article which didn't use the none parameter either directly or via another template which uses it. Maybe you looked at an example which did use none, or one which had a non-zero loss number and has always correctly displayed 0% winning, or one which didn't even use the template in that place, or one which needed a purge to update the rendering after you reverted your wrong [9]. It's hard to tell when you fail to give an example. Always give an example when you report a problem. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:06, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Okay, I presume I wrote the param code incorrectly, for instance, I replaced &nbsp;–&nbsp; with your suggested {{{none|&nbsp;–&nbsp;}}} first the base template than updated the direct template and last the target page, which was working, BUT when I removed the "none" parameter it still displayed 0–0 as 0% meaning, it displayed it thusly across all 26k pages, it was transcluded to, so I had to revert.
Than I tried to be all fancy by renaming the param to "zero" and use an if expression, which I am still unfamiliar with, and updated the TWLP accordingly, but that too failed, so I made a fork of the original, the base template, by adding if to the first expression, which would always display 0%, irrespective of the won= and lost= values and relinked it to the follow-up twlp template, so it's used exclusively for the ATP/WTA aka the Tour Finals, 2021 onwards. Qwerty284651 (talk) 21:48, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Qwerty284651: You haven't checked 26k pages so you don't know what they said. {{{none|&nbsp;–&nbsp;}}} is the correct code to produce the value of |none= if the parameter is set. Trust me, it's one the most elementary and used features of the template language, documented at Help:Template#Handling parameters. Without none it produces &nbsp;–&nbsp;. Where would it even get a string like "0%" from if none is not set? It wouldn't. It's unclear to me which place in which page you checked at which time but as mentioned, maybe you needed to purge the page after ing the template which did temporarily produce "0%" everywhere after your wrong [10]. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:32, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@PrimeHunter Will give it a second go. Qwerty284651 (talk) 22:49, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Here is the thing, upon re-adding the value in this example, when none is set to yes, it displays in the atp finals page as yes in brackets, when it is set to 0%, it displays normally, but when I removed the param to see if it works without it, it actually displayed 0%. I am at a loss as to what I am doing wrong. It IS simple, yet I cannot seem to get it to work right. Qwerty284651 (talk) 23:34, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Qwerty284651: You have made many s and it's hard to tell which alledgedly wrong display you refer to at which time. Keep the template versions you think are wrong (we can live with a temporary problem if there actually is one), link the page where you think something displays wrong, say where in the page it is, quote what you see there and what you think it should say instead. That's how you make a proper example of a perceived problem. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:58, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@PrimeHunter, okay, so I the param, added param none=yes in the main template, on atp finals page, 5th row from top starting with 6, last input at the end of the line, it says "0–0 (yes)", it should say "0–0 (0%)". Qwerty284651 (talk) 00:28, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Qwerty284651: Thanks for the example. It happens because you wrote none=yes in {{Tennis win loss percentage}}. none is not a yes/no flag to enable/disable something. It is a literal value to display as written. If it said none=No matches played then it would display "No matches played". In the article you wrote {{twlp|W=0|L=0|dec=0|none=yes}} This none=yes is ignored because {{twlp}} has no input parameter called none. It only uses that parameter name when it calls {{Tennis win percentage}} with none=yes so you couldn't currently get the article to display 0% in a call of {{twlp}}. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:16, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@PrimeHunter, okay then explain me this. Why when I set "none=0%" in {{twlp}}, it displays as "0%" in the article, but when I remove the parameter (see line 154 in diff) in wikicode {{twlp|W=0|L=0|dec=0}} it displays it correctly as 0% even without the missing "none parameter", and not -? Qwerty284651 (talk) 01:58, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Qwerty284651: {{twlp}} still has no input parameter called none so it doesn't matter in any way whether a call of {{twlp}} sets none to something. You have changed {{twlp}} [11] to say none=0% so any call of {{twlp}} will currently say 0%. Do you want callers of {{twlp}} to be able to choose what to say, similar to callers of {{Tennis win percentage}} but maybe with 0% as default instead of &nbsp;–&nbsp;? PrimeHunter (talk) 03:26, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You could do that by changing none=0% to none={{{none|0%}}} in {{twlp}}. That means: Use the callers value of |none= if it's set, otherwise use 0%. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:33, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@PrimeHunter I wanted to have none= param display by default, which it already did, having been named as the default value for the none param in {{twp1}} and when called with value none=yes to display 0%, which I, believe it or not, successfully coded with none={{#if:{{{none|}}}|0%|&nbsp;–&nbsp;}}. See here. Qwerty284651 (talk) 05:32, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Qwerty284651: That works. It seems confusing that none is a value to display in {{Tennis win percentage}} and a flag to choose between two possible values in {{Tennis win loss percentage}} but if you like it then I think we have spent enough time on this. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:04, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@PrimeHunter
I know we have drawn out this convo for far too long and thanks for the patience, but just one last thing.
Is it possible to combine the two by having none be a flag in {{Tennis win percentage}} that chooses between two possible values directly instead of it being just a value to display something or is that not feasible? Qwerty284651 (talk) 13:21, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Qwerty284651: You already posted the needed code: {{#if:{{{none|}}}|0%|&nbsp;–&nbsp;}} instead of {{{none|&nbsp;–&nbsp;}}} in {{Tennis win percentage}}. If this is done then {{twlp}} must be changed to use the parameter in the new way. It can just pass on none with none={{{none|}}}. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:11, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Qwerty284651: I did as you suggested. I guess both have the same desired effect. Thanks for helping me out. Till then. Cheers, Qwerty284651 (talk) 20:10, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm sure that it can be made to work, but it is still invalid to write that Matteo Berrettini's Game W–L percentage (at ATP Finals) is "0%". I recommend against it. "N/A" or "–" would be more appropriate. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:49, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Fyunck(click): What is your take on this? Is it common practice to write win % for 0–0 as - in tennis-related articles? Qwerty284651 (talk) 13:03, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sort of beyond my knowledge on what is appropriate. All I could give is my own opinion. If I was doing it I would probably use N/A rather than 0% or an ndash. Fyunck(click) (talk) 20:10, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Tech News: 2022-40[]

MediaWiki message delivery 00:21, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Authority control[]

Hello, where do we report links in the {{Authority control}} that do not work? I checked out a few in Category:Articles with WorldCat-VIAF identifiers and get "404: Document not found" messages. Example article A5 road (Great Britain). Why are we adding links that do not work to this template? Keith D (talk) 11:27, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Not a new problem, sadly: Template talk:Authority control/Archive 11#Thousands of WorldCat links don't work. Fram (talk) 11:36, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There seems to have been some discussion in 2018 to suppress these links if the article subject isn't a person. But I don't see that it was ever implemented. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested transmissions °co-ords° 20:17, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It also fails for people, as per Dan Erickson. Keith D (talk) 20:59, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Planck mythology[]

Various claims relating to effects at the Planck scale have been included in WP over the last years, often vociferously defended, but never reliably sourced. This mythology seems to have permeated to where it is mentioned in print outside WP, and that WP ors seem to accept it as a given. An example that I came across recently where apparently reasonable ors simply fail to understand this effect because it is:

In neither case could the restored source be checked: the link is dead and neither the ISBN nor the author/title combination appears to exist. The statement "it is thought that the short wavelength limit is in the vicinity of the Planck length" is given undue prominence, given that it can be, at best, described as pseudoscientific speculation (that may even have gained visibility through WP). How should we deal with this kind of self-perpetuating topic that draws its strength from WP folklore? —Quondum 11:57, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Quondum: This is for technical problems related to mediawiki and using wikipedia in general. You might want to move this to WP:Fringe theories/Noticeboard. 0xDeadbeef 12:05, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for the suggestion. Moved to Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard#Planck_mythology. —Quondum 12:14, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Is Special:EditWatchlist Broken[]

Is Special:EditWatchlist broken for everyone or just me? When I load the page I get:

Internal error
Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\Assert\ParameterAssertionException"

and trying to load using a different skin doesn't seem to work either. Chris 12:57, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Works for me (legacy Vector, Firefox, Ubuntu). Certes (talk) 13:02, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks, must just be me then. I cleared my watchlist, and that seems to have fixed it. --Chris 13:50, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The "reply" link cannot be used to reply to this comment[]

Can someone fill me in on the reason for this "error" popping up? (Full text: The "reply" link cannot be used to reply to this comment. To reply, please use the full page or by clicking "Edit"., most recently noticed when attempting a reply to this post). 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:03, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

My first instinct would be that it is confused by the {{od}} outdent template in the message you're trying to reply to. You could look thru the links at Wikipedia:Talk pages project#Open bugs to see if this has been reported before. --Floquenbeam (talk) 15:15, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That was my thought, but a quick test at ANI showed that "reply" worked on other outdented posts; it only seems to error out on outdented posts by Cullen328. I'll check the links you mentioned. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:20, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hmm. No explanation at those links, least not that I could find, though other folks may have had the same problem (1, 2). This section talks about the error message but none of the examples apply (I think) to this case.
On an unrelated note, I really don't like that talk page setup, what a pain to try to skim/search old posts... 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:45, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I was able to fix the behavior by moving {{od}} out of the block of text. I would guess that Parsoid isn't parsing the block of text with {{od}} inline the same as Parser.php. Izno (talk) 16:55, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
✅ - I'll file that knowledge away for future reference... well, the "move {{od}}" part, at least, the other stuff is way over my head. 😅 199.208.172.35 (talk) 14:55, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template:Is redirect gives result for corresponding subject page[]

Hi all, {{is redirect}} when used for a talk page, returns whether or not the corresponding subject page is a redirect, which I believe is not an expected result. For example, {{is redirect|Talk:Autism}} → yes. At the moment, it returns "yes". Here, Talk:Autism isn't a redirect, but Autism is. It would be helpful, if it can be fixed. Thanks! CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {CX}) 20:12, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It calls Module:Pagetype. Module:Pagetype#Talk parameter says: "Normally, the module will treat talk pages as if they were in the corresponding subject namespace. However, if the talk parameter is set, the module will treat talk pages separately from subject pages." {{is redirect}} may have uses relying on the current behaviour so maybe it should just pass on and document an optional talk parameter but continue with the same subject page default as the module. Pinging DePiep who made the template. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:21, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@PrimeHunter @CX Zoom There are hundreds of thousands of talk pages using templates that rely on this behaviour, e.g. Template:Automatic archive navigator uses this template to detect archive pages that have been left behind following a page move and Template:Old RfD uses this to check for non-redirects that have been tagged. 192.76.8.81 (talk) 21:47, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I was the one who requested {{automatic archive navigator}} to use {{is redirect}}, see Template Talk:automatic archive navigator. But it is now populating the corresponding category in a manner I had not expected. I've been cleaning up that category manually, and all these redirect subject pages are causing unwanted pages to clog up the category. I wouldn't mind having a different module or template that does the job the way I wish it to, if the current code cannot be updated, but I don't know how to build one. Thanks! CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {CX}) 05:43, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I have no simple solution. When creating the template, I have not considered nor tested this behaviour (i.e., not thought of). Given the 142k tc's now for this template, as noted by IP, it seems not feasible to change this default behaviour, also because it follows the module.
I have added a warning note to the templates documentation. Could there be an adjustment for new usage? (A warning in Preview, or by subst: or by bot an explicit parameter added--like the dating of certain templates have?). DePiep (talk) 06:07, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Noting: 1. TPU says that the template is not used directly in mainspace (only by transclusion then).
2. Apart from RTFM usage, the situation is the same for invoking the module. no, the template does not process |talk=. -DePiep (talk) 06:13, 5 October 2022 (UTC) -DePiep (talk) 06:39, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've fixed this in the sandbox by adding a talk parameter:
  • {{is redirect/sandbox|Talk:Autism}} → yes
  • {{is redirect/sandbox|Talk:Autism|talk=yes}}
— Qwerfjkltalk 06:16, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Improvement. Though current 'correct' implementations, ie already having |talk=yes, will change behaviour. NB I've applied {{yesno}} to prevent awkward |talk=no misexpectation. DePiep (talk) 06:43, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Qwerfjkl's & DePiep's sandbox version seems to resolve the issue. By adding the |talk= parameter, existing transclusions remain unaffected while improving the functionality of the template overall. {{yesno}} makes it more obvious to a new user coming across this template, who might not know what's going on internally. CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {CX}) 06:47, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Edit requested submitted. — Qwerfjkltalk 15:31, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Forcing a cessation[]

Currently, whenever I refresh a page on Wikipedia or restore a previously viewed page using the back arrow, a banner drops down saying "View simplified page?" It only occupies about 10% of the page but the problem is that the 10% it occupies is enough to completely obscure my entire page header as well as all of the page links and notification links therein contained. And the banner remains in place for nearly 10 seconds which seems like an eternity with desired functionality unavailable while it is displayed. If anyone knows how I can force a cessation of this banner's display, please advise me of how. I am hopeful and eager to see a reply. Thank you.--John Cline (talk) 06:47, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

In furtherance of my desire to force this banner not to display, I reviewed my preference options, selected the "banners" tab and deselected all of the banner options which had all been selected. The "simplified view" banner is still appearing. I presume that others, if not all ors, encounter this banner. Am I correct in that regard? If so, does anyone else find its manner of display annoying? Best regards. --John Cline (talk) 09:18, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@John Cline The 'view simplified page' popup is a feature of your web browser, not Wikipedia, so turning off Wikipedia banners will have no effect. What browser are you using? There are instructions online for disabling this feature on Chrome; I'm not sure if it's something other browsers have too. Sam Walton (talk) 10:26, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you for this reply. I use Firefox and will pursue disabling it from there. Got to go for now. Thanks again.--John Cline (talk) 10:52, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Is the problem specific to Wikipedia? If not, perhaps you have Firefox's reader view enabled. Certes (talk) 11:06, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Firefox reader view doesn't behave this way. The description appears to be a Chrome 'feature'. Neils51 (talk) 11:57, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@John Cline: When you write I use Firefox, do you mean that the problem appears when using Firefox, or that the problem appears when you use some other browser (which?) and you have worked around the problem by browsing in Firefox instead? Certes (talk) 15:29, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Inter-wiki links in cites[]

Hi all,

I am trying to fix a CS1 maint. notice: (I realise that this will generate a script warning for some people when ing, apologies)

{{cite book|author= {{Interlanguage link multi|Gerhard Dohrn-van Rossum|de}} |title=History of the Hour: Clocks and Modern Temporal Orders |year= 1996|publisher=University of Chicago Press|isbn=978-0-226-15510-4 |url= https://books.google.com/books?id=9Za4jdBEVB4C&pg=PA392}}

My equally unsatisfactory attempt is this:

{{cite book|last=Dohrn-van Rossum |first=Gerhard |author-link=:de:Gerhard Dohrn-van Rossum |title=History of the Hour: Clocks and Modern Temporal Orders |year= 1996 |publisher=University of Chicago Press |isbn=978-0-226-15510-4 |page=392 |url= https://books.google.com/books?id=9Za4jdBEVB4C&pg=PA392 }}

I hunted through the documentation without luck, so: Is it possible for {{cite book}} to generate either the de:Gerhard Dohrn-van Rossum of a standard inter-language link, or the (de) suffix of an {{ill}}? Otherwise the link is somewhat misleading. Or maybe I should just leave it alone... Cheers, MinorProphet (talk) 12:21, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I imagine that this would be a an incorrect use of |first=, however:
{{cite book|last=Dohrn-van Rossum |first=Gerhard [de] |author-link=:de:Gerhard :Dohrn-van Rossum |title=History of the Hour: Clocks and Modern Temporal Orders |year= 1996 |publisher=University of Chicago Press |isbn=978-0-226-15510-4 |page=392 |url= https://books.google.com/books?id=9Za4jdBEVB4C&pg=PA392 }}
See this recent discussion. Improvements have been made in the sandbox version of the modules. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:26, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Many thanks for the link - gratifying to know that it's being worked on right now. MinorProphet (talk) 13:50, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

PageImage is not updated[]

Hi, after reverting an on the Template:Math topics TOC, the image File:Nuvola_Math_and_Inf.svg has now the size 121px, but the PageImage at all transcluding the articles like Mathematics is not updated. By a rule of thumb, the first SVG image that is larger than 120px should automatically be set as the PageImage of that article. But this scenario after reverting this is not applied, and the PageImage of the article Mathematics is not updated to File:Nuvola_Math_and_Inf.svg. Why this happens? and how I can set it again as PageImage? Thanks, Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 14:48, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Each affected page probably needs a WP:NULLEDIT. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:42, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jonesey95 No, null s or non-null s are not the solution of this problem. The same problem exists for example in Farsi Wikipedia and in the article سعدی i.e., after reverting similar , still PageImage is not updated (see here). Here, after a couple of days, and applying some non-null s to the article, still the PageImage is not updated (unlike PageImage at English Wikipedia) Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 16:54, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jonesey95 @Izno Null solves that for the article of Mathematics , but not for the article سعدی, a few minutes ago I applied both some null and non-null ions to that article and PageImage does not change. The same problem certainly exists for other articles.
Anyway, it should be updated without requiring any null , i.e., this update should be done automatically without requiring null . Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 17:17, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jonesey95 As another example, a null does not change the PageImage of article Cluster analysis, although PageImage of the article Data mining that in the same way transcludes this image and has the same image_size as the former, is this image File:Kernel Machine.svg. This way, this law is violated:

PageImage = Lead's first image of size greater than 120px

Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 17:56, 5 October 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]