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Content dispute at Carl von Bismarck[]

Courtesy link: Carl von Bismarck

Editors Equord and C Fred have been constantly iting a page with a false "source" which is a planked source and the ing is transmitting false information and translation. How to avoid that the page keep being constantly vandalised? Otto-Christian von Bismarck (talk) 05:20, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

@Otto-Christian von Bismarck Well, can you tell which page they are ing. The ors that you said, are quite experienced, so it is unlikely that they will make a mistakes. Though sometimes, it can be possible too. So, it would be of great help if could specify the page that they are ing. Thanks.
PS: (Courtesy pinging Equord and C.Fred so that they can address the problem) ItcouldbepossibleTalk 05:41, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
@Otto-Christian von Bismarck Well, the problem you are creating is that, you are removing sourced content from this page? But why are you doing so? Removing properly sourced content is not allowed on Wikipedia. ItcouldbepossibleTalk 05:46, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
Alerting HaeB to this discussion as they removed the material in the latest . HaeB appears to be fluent in German and deems these German-language sources to be unreliable.
As an aside, Otto-Christian von Bismarck is also removing this material from the articles on German (de:Carl-Eduard von Bismarck) and Portuguese (pt:Carl-Eduard von Bismarck) Wikipedias. --Drm310 🍁 (talk) 05:51, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
Indeed, I encountered this article on recent changes patrol, and happened to notice that the two sources cited in support of the contested paragraph were Bunte and a blog post that relied on Bild am Sonntag. Both Bunte and Bild am Sonntag have a less than stellar journalistic reputation, to put it mildly.
That doesn't rule out the possibility that some of this information could be re-added if better sources are found. But the now removed version looked like a serious WP:BLP problem.
Regards, HaeB (talk) 09:42, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
@HaeB The first he made from an IP, and removed the sourced content. And then he continued removing the content, every time some added them. ItcouldbepossibleTalk 09:54, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
Yes, and? (I'm aware of that, see also my own initial revert [1].) Regards, HaeB (talk) 10:05, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Thank you Drm310, User:Itcouldbepossiblefor your courtesy to respond and for your help. The page has been vandalised several times with unreliable sources with harmful ing, intentional or due maybe to the lack of the ors being familiar with foreign language "german" and unreliable "german" sources. Thank you HaeB. Editors have replicated the English ion version also on the German and Portuguese pages Otto-Christian von Bismarck — Preceding unsigned comment added by Otto-Christian von Bismarck (talkcontribs) 6:18, 11 January 2022 () (UTC)

I want to question the use of the word “vandalised” which implies bad faith s. Can you demonstrate that? From my perspective patrolling recent/pending changes, one or was repeatedly removing cited text and everyone else involved was just asking “why?” and restoring it. Nick Levine (talk) 08:35, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
WP:NOTVAND may be worth a read. Regards, HaeB (talk) 09:42, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
@Nick Levine Yes, I also cannot understand that. He is saying "vandalized the page". But adding cited text back is not vandalism. He wants the content to be removed for some reason. ItcouldbepossibleTalk 09:51, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Just pointing out the obvious here, that User:Otto-Christian von Bismarck has a conflict of interest over Carl von Bismarck. Nick Levine (talk) 07:53, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Nick Levine what makes you make such statement? If my name would ne John Smith you wouldn't. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Otto-Christian von Bismarck (talkcontribs) 08:11, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Well I fell into that one didn’t I. But when a WP:COI notice was put on your talk page you didn’t protest it then, so I assumed you weren’t arguing the facts. Nick Levine (talk) 08:25, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
This is a bit of a mess. To summarise: (1) we have a conflict over a piece of very negative information about Carl von B, which Otto von B wants removed. The information is supported by truly atrocious sources (HaeB's assessment is quite right; Bild is roughly equivalent to Daily Mail). Therefore it would normally be a no-brainer to remove the content. However, (2) the or who wants it removed shares a very unusual surname with the subject, and has countered a COI claim with a shadow-boxing counter-claim of name-prejudice rather than simply declaring no COI, so we're left with a strong suspicion that the removal is COI ing, which is also normally a no-brainer revert. My "vote" is that the correct thing to do is ignore Otto-von-B's opinion as potentially biased until such times as they state clearly that they are unrelated to the subject, but nevertheless remove the information whose support traces back to Bild, as per HaeB, unless someone can find a better source. Elemimele (talk) 11:43, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
@Elemimele: This is a case study in why COI ors should not cry "vandalism" when they remove negative material. The immediate reaction by experienced ors is to view the as whitewashing and restore the material. It is certainly easier to do that first and then vet the sources. In a perfect world, Otto-Christian von Bismarck would have requested removal of the offending lines on the talk page on the grounds that they were supported by a blog and a tabloid, sources too weak to support such claims. Thank you to HaeB for digging into the source chain for the material, determining it's weak, and removing it based on policy.
@Otto-Christian von Bismarck: to be clear, we did not remove the material because it's negative; we removed it because the sources are not reliable journalism per Wikipedia's standards. —C.Fred (talk) 12:41, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
@Elemimele: Thanks for your summary. Nick Levine (talk) 12:54, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
@Otto-Christian von Bismarck: in answer to your question: I suspect you are a family relative because, on your user page, you said so yourself. Nick Levine (talk) 12:58, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
It was me who initially ed the disputed facts. I'm very sorry that the sources I added are not regarded reliable. However, I'm convinced the negative information they contain is largely correct. Furthermore I suspect that User:Otto-Christian von Bismarck is Carl vB himself, as his only topic is Carl and the dispute, as is for User:Friedrichsruh-Aumuhle [2]. Just today his s under the same name User:Otto-Christian von Bismarck have been reverted in the German WP article de:Carl-Eduard von Bismarck and the reverted version has been saved, with User:Otto-Christian von Bismarck being accused of -war [3]. The underlying story, covered by numerous German newspapers (inevitably primarily tabloids and yellow press, but also serious daily press) is going on for many, many years. Just a few examples: Fierce dispute over the inheritance: The Bismarcks are flying tatters (in: Lübecker Nachrichten, a regional daily newspaper, of 9 Dec 2013). Or: Is this the decline of the German nobility? (in: Die Welt, one of the largest and best-known German daily newspapers, of 14 Dec 2013). Both report sharp arguments between Carl and his brother Gregor and their parents. Furthermore the Die Welt article reports the following: "Carl-Eduard von Bismarck, known as Calle, also has problems. But unlike his late brother Gottfried, the 52-year-old decided to take an incomprehensible step in his circles: He spoke about it in public. In an interview with “Bild am Sonntag” he told of alcohol problems, debts and the fact that his third marriage would also be in crisis.". Here it is: [4] It may be a little ironic that the source classified here as dubious (Bild) at the time served as the mouthpiece of the person concerned. The sources revised here essentially addressed three negative facts: marital problems, alcohol problems, and disinheritance. All three facts were made known or confirmed personally by the person concerned in the quoted Bild interview of 2013. Regarding alcoholism: „Unfortunately, alcoholism is a disease that comes and goes. And unfortunately there were relapses through the whole trouble. I tried to get my alcohol problems under control in New York with my father's approval. That worked well too. I made money with my company, I didn't want to be on my family's pocket forever. But then there were always situations like last Christmas...“ Regarding marital problems: The third marriage, which he described as troubled in his 2013 interview, was divorced in 2014. Regarding disinheritance: „My brother had my father dragged to the notary without legal assistance in order to secure the property for himself. My father tried to change these agreements out of a bad conscience and even sued my brother. Without success. The fact is that my brother already owns 51 percent of the forestry, which I have no problem with. From his 50th birthday, next August, Gregor will also have the say in the castle. But only after my father died.“ To quote a somewhat more recent (and undisputedly reputable) source, the local daily Hamburger Abendblatt from July 25, 2019: „In 2014 Ferdinand von Bismarck handed over the administration of the Sachsenwald to his son Gregor. Since then, he has been taking care of the Bismarck family. He is also considered a prudent and resourceful entrepreneur.“ [5] Regarding debts: Focus (German magazine) headlined on December 16, 2013: The luxury life of Carl Eduard − Bismarck heir squandered six million dollars. [6] - So all in all it's a well-known, classic and tragic family dispute. It is not clear why WP should not name these facts. Facts that have preoccupied the German press for years. And the person concerned seems to want to polish up his image not only through interviews, but also through Wikipedia. My revised here read like this: Due to his marriage and alcohol problems as well as over-indebtedness, which his father often had to settle, he was disinherited by his father in 2002 and placed on the compulsory portion. After the latter's death in 2019, the family estate, including the manor house at Friedrichsruh and large parts of the Sachsenwald forest, fell to his youngest brother, Count Gregor von Bismarck-Schönhausen (born 1964). One can argue about the exact choice of words, but hardly about the facts. At most, one could create a certain balance here by depicting the motives for disinheritance from Carl's point of view, namely driven by a greedy brother and a vengeful mother, under the manipulation of the father. One could write, for example: He himself accused his brother in interviews... - However, there is no need to speak of other, more temporary facts here in WP, such as the presence of the police at Friedrichsruh Manor, which he himself confirmed in an interview with the Bild newspaper on October 1, 2019, due to violence: [7]. Or the arrest warrant that his ex-wife obtained from the Reinbeck District Court on October 8, 2020, because Carl did not meet his maintenance payments for his children and on subpoenas had not appeared to submit an affidavit about his financial circumstances, as reported in Hamburger Morgenpost of 22 Oct 2020: [8]. All in all, it cannot be seen why at least some basic facts that he himself had made known in interviews (a kind of press war) should not be mentioned here. Equord (talk) 15:21, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
Hello. I'm from, and would like to thank all of you for the analysis and discussion around the content, its sources and the COI. Otto-Christian von Bismarck has been blocked at, initially for 3 days because of warring, removal of content and COI; but the block has been extended to 1 week due to the use of a sock puppet to evade the block (Amber22200 was the sock). Otto's s removing content have been reverted, and the article pt:Carl-Eduard von Bismarck is temporarily protected. I would like to invite the other two ors involved in the situation at, @M.a.salgado11 and 79a:, to read the topic here (and specially Equord's comment above mine) so that the content in dispute can be ed there according to the sources considered more reliable. Thanks. Solon 26.125 21:36, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
@Equord: Thank you for this thorough writeup. Regarding "It may be a little ironic that the source classified here as dubious (Bild) at the time served as the mouthpiece of the person concerned": Not sure what's ironic here or how it would override WP:BILD/WP:BLP concerns. Just a few weeks ago, Bild was criticized for seriously misrepresentating of statements from an interview it had conducted [9]. On the other hand, I agree that e.g. Die Welt is a more reliable source. Anyway, per Nick Levine, conversation about specific article content should probably continue on the article talk page rather than here. Regards, HaeB (talk) 21:48, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

@Nick Levine I would like to...Otto-Christian, the grand son of Otto von Bismarck was born 1897 and passed away in 1975. Thank you for your summary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Otto-Christian von Bismarck (talkcontribs) 13:46, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Per WP:REALNAME, Do not under a name that is likely to imply that you are (or are related to) a specific, identifiable person. Sure, a dead person is not likely to Wikipedia, and a couple of ors use usernames that technically impersonate historical characters (I could find Winston Churchill). However, the above discussion shows that some people were confused. I would also note that your note on your userpage seems like an assertion that you are OCvB rather than a general biographical notice. TigraanClick here for my talk page ("private" contact) 16:45, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
Equord you've provided good background and a lot of support from far more reliable sources than Bild. I'd say anything that's made it into reputable newspapers, even local ones, is fair to use. I have nothing against including the information, I just think it needs to be supported by something solid. I think you're right that where necessary we can quote what he said himself, in an interview with the tabloid press, but I do think we utterly need to specify "in an interview with Bild, Carl von B said..." because this is a double-unreliable-source: a newspaper that we expect to take a biased position reporting the words of someone who we expect to be biased by their personal involvement; our readers need to be aware, and take it as his words about himself, not necessarily a fact. We should do this when we actually want to present what he's said about it, as a relevant feature of the overall argument, as opposed to presenting the facts. For that, I really like your better sources. Thank you for listing them, and for your work. Elemimele (talk) 19:16, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Now what? Nick Levine (talk) 17:22, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

I made a note about all this on the article's talk page. I think we've run out of steam over here. Nick Levine (talk) 18:15, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

I need help with completing my project: "Eghosa Anglican Grammar School"[]

Symbol redirect vote2.svg Courtesy link: Draft:Eghosa Anglican Grammar School
Hello, I am currently working on a project titled: "Eghosa Anglican Grammar School" I need help with completing it so that it can be approved for publication. Thanks

I got this notice from one of the Admins "This submission does not appear to be written in the formal tone expected of an encyclopedia article. Entries should be written from a neutral point of view, and should refer to a range of independent, reliable, published sources. Please rewrite your submission in a more encyclopedic format. Please make sure to avoid peacock terms that promote the subject."

I look forward to hearing from you at your earliest convenience. Thank you. Sunnycash (talk) 07:48, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Sunnycash. In general, grammar schools are considered notable if reliable, independent sources describe them, in detail, as of unusual historic or architectural significance. Is that the case with this particular school? Cullen328 (talk) 08:11, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
Despite the name, this appears to be equivalent to a high school, i.e., pre-college level. In many countries, "grammar school" is young children. David notMD (talk) 15:01, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
@Sunnycash: Note that the or who declined your draft is not an admin. Editors do not have to be admins in order to be an Articles for Creation reviewer. I suggest you trim the list of "Notable alumni" to be only those with a Wikipedia article or an independent reliable source. I also suggest removing the "List of Principals" - interested readers can go to the school's website for these details. Hope this helps, and happy ing! GoingBatty (talk) 16:28, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Thank you David notMD and GoingBatty. Please take a second look at my draft Symbol redirect vote2.svg Courtesy link: Draft:Eghosa Anglican Grammar School
and let me know if it is good enough now. Thank you.Sunnycash (talk) 06:50, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Answered on Sunnycash Talk page. David notMD (talk) 11:15, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

How can I have an article approved not too late?[]


For sure is a busy place!

First article and I'm sorry to say I'm in a hurry for this article, which is a translation of another article.
Wikipedia tells me I might have to way for 2 months to see my article published, and I didn't expect that...

I'd appreciate if you had a suggestion on how I could find a Wikipedia contributor that would be interested in reviewing my article?

The article is:

which is a translation of that article (in French):

Thanks in advance. CitoyenSolidaire (talk) 18:17, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

@CitoyenSolidaire welcome to Teahouse! Why are you in a hurry? WP:There is no deadline. Are you getting WP:PAID for this? The external links inside the article should be removed, and see Help:Referencing for beginners for correct referencing formats. Topic does appear to be notable, but Teahouse is not the place to jump the queue. ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 18:25, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
@Shushugah Hi! Thank you. I'm not paid for this. This is volunteer work in order to help promote democracy in my country. I'm in a hurry because the elections are comming very soon and my candidate is a non-partisan candidate with only volunteers to support her. Sorry if my request was impolite. Best regards. CitoyenSolidaire (talk) 19:49, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
Welcome to the Teahouse, CitoyenSolidaire. When you translate an article from another Wikipedia, as you've done here, you need to cr the source. See Help:Translation#License requirements. Cordless Larry (talk) 19:56, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
@Cordless Larry Thank you! I'll fix this right away. CitoyenSolidaire (talk) 15:14, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
Hi, CitoyenSolidaire. While Wikipedia has no concern as to how this affects any sort of election, the subject does seem notable. Would you mind if I hopped in and tried to clean up the article a bit? Nothing drastic; just grammar fixes, citation cleanup (namely adding translations), adding names of the works to citations, etc. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 20:15, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
@User:TheTechnician27 Thanks, for proposing your help for this page Draft:Clara_Egger! Yes, feel free to have a look at the page if you wish. Thanks in advance! CitoyenSolidaire (talk) 14:57, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
@CitoyenSolidaire: I suggest you add a couple sentences to the lead that summarize why Egger is notable. There should be no external links in the body of the article - either convert them to references or move them to an "External links" section or remove them. On the English Wikipedia, punctuation comes before references and there are no spaces between references. Also, please replace the « » marks with quotation marks or italics. Thanks, and happy ing! GoingBatty (talk) 21:16, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
@User:GoingBatty Thank you!
@CitoyenSolidaire Do you have a personal knowledge or familiarity with this person? Is sounds from your words as if you know them, or are a part of their campaign team. If so, please ensure you declare 'conflict of interest' by following the guidance at WP:COI. Merci. Nick Moyes (talk) 21:49, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
@User:Nick Moyes Thank you. I have read the guidance. This article is nothing new, it's essentially a translation in English of the corresponding French Wikipedia page. CitoyenSolidaire (talk) 15:07, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
@CitoyenSolidaire: Since nobody seems to have mentioned this above, there can be a downside to having an article created you on Wikipedia. I strongly suggest you take a look at Wikipedia:Ownership of content, Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, Wikipedia:Conflict of interest#Law of unintended consequences and Wikipedia:An article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing because there are some things about Wikipedia that neither you nor the person you're trying to create an article about might not really understand. -- Marchjuly (talk) 09:21, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
@User:Marchjuly Thank you. This article is nothing new and is not about me. It's essentially a translation in English of the corresponding French Wikipedia page. CitoyenSolidaire (talk) 15:07, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
@CitoyenSolidaire You have completely avoided answering my question. So, stating it more explicitly: do you know this person or are you working on their behalf to create an article about them on English Wikipedia? And are you being paid to do so? (What is on other Wikipedia is of no relevance to us here.) Nick Moyes (talk) 18:18, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
@Nick Moyes I didn't mean to avoid your question; I thought you'd have seen my answer to User:Shushugah (around 30 lines above this one). I do not know this person personally, I am not working on her behalf. I am not paid by anyone or any organization and have no promise to any advantages or whatsoever in exchange to this work. I'm only very enthusiastic about the message of this person for the general public. CitoyenSolidaire (talk) 19:21, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
@CitoyenSolidaire: When I posted there can be a downside to having an article created you on Wikipedia, I should have clarrified that the word you wasn't referring to you specifically, but anyone in general. You seem to be in a hurry because the subject of the article is a candidate in some upcoming election with only volunteers to support here. It's great for you (this time I do mean you as an individual) to want to do that, but Wikipedia cannot be used for such a thing. This happens all of the time on English Wikipedia with people trying to create articles about political candidates they support because they somehow think it such an article can either directly or indirectly used to help support their campaign. Many of the times the ors trying to create these articles have the best intentions in mind, but they usually just aren't familiar with things like WP:NPOL or WP:OWN and WP:NOT; they mistakenly assume that the Wikipedia article will somehow be able to benefit their candidate, even in almost all cases it will not. It's also not unheard of for the staff of a candidate to try and create articles about their "boss" on Wikipedia, and this is why I think Nick Moyes was a bit concerned about your intentions. Nick has been and or for a long time and is a Wikipedia administrator; so, he's probably seen this kind of WP:APPARENTCOI thing many times before. When people start asking about creating an article about "my <insert name of subject here>" and seem to be in a hurry to get such an article created, it often does indicate they might not be as forthcoming as they can about any connection they have to the subject of the article. One thing I noticed is that you uploaded File:ClaraEgger 2021-12-29 18-16-03.jpg to Commons and that it's licensing as been c:COM:VRT verified. The photo is attributed to someone other than yourself and perhaps you contacted that person to ask them to upload it. That's great and thanks for doing that, but sometimes such a thing indicates a connection between article subject and content creator. Anyway, if there are no such concerns in your cases then great; you might still, however, want to take a look at this just to make sure your goals are in tune with Wikipedia's goals.
As for the translation of the article itself, please take a look at WP:TRANSLATION, WP:MACHINE and WP:OTHERLANGS. Articles found on other language Wikipedias can be translated into English, but existing in another language is no automatic guarantee that it should also exist in English. Each language Wikipedia has it's own policies and guidelines and while there's lots of similarities and overlapping, there are also sometimes important differences. Even in cases where a policy or guideline is pretty much the same, there may be differences in how rigorously it's being enforced. Since someone else feels Egger is Wikipedia notable and has offered to help out on the draft, may be the best thing to do here would be to offer support and follow that or's lead. If the goal is to create a viable article about Egger that is going to survive a deletion challange, then it should make no difference whether the article is created before the election. This is why WP:AFC is suggested for ors without tons of experience in creating articles: it helps separate the wheat from the chaff and gives more experienced ors a chance to assess when there's potential for a viable article to be created. AFC isn't perfect and it does take some time, but the idea is to avoid articles ending up deleted shortly after they're created as much a possible. You might also want to see assistance on this from the members of WP:FRANCE since some of them may be able to help as well.
Finally, in my opinion, the last thing most political candidates are going to want is an article created about them on Wikipedia that they have absolutely zero control over that might end up containing content that somehow casts them in an unfavorable light. Even if you don't intend to do such a thing, other ors might feel unfavorable content warrants mentioning in accordance with relevant policies and guidelines. It's certainly not going to be helpful to any candidate if the WP:REALWORLD around them start creeping into any such Wikipedia article and they find it tag with maintaince templates pointing out various concerns about the article or even page protected because of continuous disruptive ing or vandalism. They or their staff may be tempted in such a case to "fix" things, but they will only find that creates more problems and that they will need to resolve things in a Wikipedia way. It's not only candidates but all kinds of living persons who are subjects of Wikipedia biographies who also might have problems like this, and it's one of the reasons there are special processes in place for their concerns. It's not totally unheard of for the subject of a Wikipedia article to request that the article be deleted because they claim it's is affecting them in a negative way, and in some cases their request has been granted. -- Marchjuly (talk) 22:15, 15 January 2022 (UTC)


If one Wikipedia while logged out is that sockpuppetry? Why does a login expire? Is creating a new account sockpuppetry? I'm just wondering. Cwater1 (talk) 18:26, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Why don't you make the while logged in? Pyrrho the Skipper (talk) 18:28, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
Nope. Editing while logged out (As long as it's constructive) is not considered sockpuppetry. Sockpuppetry is when you create an account to get around a block. ― Blaze WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 18:28, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
@Blaze Wolf: I am afraid I can't agree 100% with you. @Cwater1: please see WP:BADSOCK for things that are considered inappropiate uses of alternate accounts (or IP adreesses). Login sessions are saved in a cookie, which by default (unless you tick the "keep me logged in for up to 365 days") is removed after 30 days if I am not mistaken, however, if your browser is configured to remove cookies on shutdown it might happen earlier. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Victor Schmidt (talkcontribs) 18:50, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

I was just wondering. I'm not trying to cause trouble. I just wanted a better understanding and I do make sure I'm logged in. Cwater1 (talk) 18:53, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

A no-no if ing the same article or Talk page logged in and not. David notMD (talk) 21:25, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Editing while logged out can happen because the login expired and it wasn't noticed. Cwater1 (talk) 05:49, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Attempting to resolve original research dispute[]

I had a content dispute regarding Original North American area codes, specifically a violation of WP:Original Research. The or objected to my proposal to obtain a WP:Third Opinion, so I took what I thought was the next option, posting at WP:No original research/Noticeboard#Assignment of original North American area codes.

I realize it's only been a couple of days (and I just made a revision to my notice yesterday), but I see that there are some items have been posted there for weeks without any response.

My expectation was that people would just jump on these noticeboard items, but evidently that expectation is not reasonable. Is there something else I should be doing to get somebody to render their opinion as to whether or not the content is a violation of OR? Fabrickator (talk) 19:37, 14 January 2022 (UTC) Fabrickator (talk) 19:37, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

There are different ways to handle this type of dispute, but one suggestion is that when you post to the noticeboard, you trim WAY down to one paragraph. Brevity is key if you want people to read and comment. The OR noticeboard post was a bit long and dense. Also, where did the user say they did not not want a 3O? Pyrrho the Skipper (talk) 20:13, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
@Pyrrho the Skipper: Here is his decline of Third Opinion. Fabrickator (talk) 05:28, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
You don't need anyone else's permission to request a 3O (though it's a nonbinding process, so anyone is free to ignore it, but of course it does represent what some uninvolved or thinks.) You don't have to ask first before requesting one, nor does the other or's objection bar you from doing so. Seraphimblade Talk to me 07:34, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
That said, it looks like you went to the or's talk page to discuss the matter. If I'd been trying to provide a 3O there, I'd have had a hell of a time even trying to figure out what the two of you were talking about. Generally speaking, discussions regarding article content should take place on the article's talk page, not a user talk page. Seraphimblade Talk to me 07:37, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

References seem to still be a problem[]

I have embedded all of the references but I'm still getting this message. Cite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them Can you please tell me where the problem is? (talk) 20:51, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

You had a blank ref tag accidentally placed in there. I took it out for you. Pyrrho the Skipper (talk) 21:07, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
I have just put nowiki tags around a ref tag, as it was screwing up the display of the rest of the page. --David Biddulph (talk) 20:09, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Hello IP or. @Pyrrho the Skipper has fixed it for you. - as the bright red message said, you had a pair of empty ref tags with nothing between them. You would have spotted this immediately had you switched over to WP:Source Editor. I would comment that everyone of of your references is not very well constructed. Try using the Cite button and adding the urls and the other fields in the right places in the citation template. To find out more, see here.
Finally, I sense that you may have a connection with the subject you are writing about. If you do, that would be a 'conflict of interest', and should you be an employee or being remunerated for creating Draft:Trey Trahan you are obliged by our policies to declare that. Find out more at WP:PAID. Nick Moyes (talk) 21:21, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

A Potential Music Website[]

Does there exist a music website in which you can create stations and set them to play only songs from certain timespans, of certain genres, and in certain languages? (I'd prefer it if the stations would still play songs of genres not on the list of genres to play, but no songs of no genres on the list.) (talk) 00:27, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse! The Teahouse is a place to ask questions about using Wikipedia, not other web sites. Having said that, you might want to try Pandora Radio and Spotify. Happy listening! GoingBatty (talk) 00:59, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
Actually, neither one of the websites you're referring to allows you to limit genres a station or playlist radio plays. (talk) 00:29, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
On Pandora, I can click on "Browse" and have lots of choices in "Browse genres" that will only play from certain timespans and/or certain genres - almost always in English.
On Spotify, I can click on "Search" and scroll down to "Your top genres" and "Browse all" to see lots of genres. When I click on some genres, I'm then sometimes presented with songs of that genre from certain timespans. Again, the songs are almost always in English. GoingBatty (talk) 03:07, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Citations, need a lot of helpt[]

This is a real site, but there is a problem with link. Don't know where to start.

Biography (info) []

accessdate=2021-12-13 publisher=Papagena Press last=Press first=Papagena 1 _ssl.c:510: error:14077438:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:tlsv1 alert internal error AjAirFlex (talk) 03:22, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

The link works for me, AirFlex. Please note that, apart from the issue that Katherine Hoover is already an article, Papagena press is a primary source, so should be used sparingly in an article. I haven't checked the nine places where it is cited, but I doubt that these are all suitable uses of a primary source. Probably some of them should either be cited to an independent source or removed. Remember that Wikipedia is not interested in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. Wikipedia is only interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information on behalf of the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources. --ColinFine (talk) 11:03, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Just out of curiosity:[]

Why does the Teahouse have a talk page if the Teahouse itself is a big talk page? Excellenc1 (talk) 05:11, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

@Excellenc1: This page is for people to ask questions about Wikipedia, while Wikipedia talk:Teahouse is a place where Wikipedia ors can discuss how to improve our work at the Teahouse. GoingBatty (talk) 05:27, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

@GoingBatty: Ok so the talk page is a Teahouse for improvements in the Teahouse. Excellenc1 (talk) 06:00, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Kind of. Please read WP:THREAD about replying to comments in discussions. (But don't worry, it's just a stylistic thing; it helps everyone keep track of who's replying to whom.) Mathglot (talk) 10:31, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

How to contribute image for biography article which do not have infobox picture[]

If there are plenty of images of people on the Internet that are copyrighted or non-copyrighted and I believe fair use, can I upload them? If yes? How?. I do film posters under non-free fair use criteria. Because I found so many Malayalam biographies especially BLPs without images. I would like to contribute and it would be helpful for readers to find the exact article and understand the person.  Onmyway22 talk 06:58, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria#1 says "Non-free content is used only where no free equivalent is available, or could be created, that would serve the same encyclopedic purpose", so you won't be able to use a copyrighted photo in a BLP, as it would be possible for someone to take an alternative photo of the living person and release it. --David Biddulph (talk) 08:55, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Developing Project Around Wikipedia Ecosystem[]

How to put Project Banner on HP?[]

I saw this in the past but can no longer find it.

I'd like to add the banner for the Wiki Project on Geocentricity to my home page to help raise awareness.

Where is the code snippet to do that? Thank you! MultiScrivner (talk) 08:01, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Hi MultiScrivner. I'm not sure what you mean by my home page. Do you mean your user page or do you mean some external website like your personal homepage? WikiProject banners are templates that are typically added to the tops of article talk pages. Such templates should work on your Wikipedia user page as well, but that's not really where they're intended to be used. Many WikiProjects, on the other hand, do have userboxes that are also templates especially for ors to add to their user pages and these are usually found someone on the main page of the WikiProject in question. Neither of those templates, however, will work on external websites which means you'll have to add a url link to the WikiProject's page if you want to add a link. Finally, I'm not sure there's a "WikiProject Geocentricity", but there are number of WikiProject listed at the top of Talk:Geocentric model. Perhaps one of those is the WikiProject you're looking for. -- Marchjuly (talk) 10:59, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
The OP might mean Special:Homepage? --David Biddulph (talk) 11:11, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Need help regarding wikipedia adventure's mission 7[]

Hi, I am a new user of Wikipedia and I have already done my other 6 missions on the Wikipedia Adventure Tour but facing a confusion in mission 7. Can anyone help me out how to add the sections on earth page. However, I used Heading and Sub-headings too but then I didn't get any message from Wikipedia Adventure Tour.

Please guide how to complete this tour. Milanbhatia12 (talk) 08:56, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Milan! Did you do the second part about adding wikilinks? TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 18:02, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Hi TheTechnician27, Yes I have added wikilinks also and then too it said "Let them see" and also about something "Publish Changes". However, I did everything. Still not completed the tour.

Heart attack[]

Hi, a person had a heart attack and was admitted to ICU (But didn't die yet). So if the information I add to this person's article, will it be encyclopedic? Thanks. Troyol (talk) 11:12, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

If you can cite reliable sources to back this up, it might be. -- Hoary (talk) 11:53, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
@Troyol: You'll need a reliable source, as Wikipedia doesn't go just off of what you know. See WP:BLPRS. ––FormalDude talk 11:53, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
In addition to what's already be posted above, Wikipedia is also not the news that needs to constantly updated like perhaps you might expect from a media organization's wesbite or social media account. So, sometimes for something like this, it's often best to just let the dust settle and wait to see how encyclopedically relevant the event actually turns out to be. -- Marchjuly (talk) 12:27, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
A few days ago you were warned against adding to biography articles that people had been diagnosed as testing positive for COVID, and all those s were reverted. Same would have applied if they had COVID and ended up in an ICU. In my opinion, same applies for this question. People enter intensive care units for myriad reasons. Some recover, some die. A public persona, being in intensive care, even if referenced, is ephemerial. Encyclopedias, even Wikipedia, are not. Unless a person dies, my opinion is don't. David notMD (talk) 15:50, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

I have created an article on a movie which is not yet released. Is this ok?[]

Novembre (film)Excellenc1 (talk) 11:40, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Yes, Excellenc1, it looks good. Neocorelight (Talk) 11:49, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
Excellenc1 In general upcoming films do not merit articles, per WP:NFILM, unless there is some notable aspect of the production of the film itself(such as with Rust (suspended film) where a shooting incident killed a member of the production). I'm not clear on what is notable about the production of this film. 331dot (talk) 11:54, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

@331dot: The actors and the director is notable... maybe? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Excellenc1 (talkcontribs)

Excellenc1: That has almost no bearing on whether the film is (at present) notable: see Notability is not inherited. By the way, pinging doesn't work if you don't sign the posting at the same time, so your ping of 331dot won't have notified them. --ColinFine (talk) 14:34, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
Excellenc1 The cast and crew being notable does not make the film notable before its release. If the production of the film is not notable, I would suggest that the article be moved to Draft until the film is released. 331dot (talk) 15:37, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
Avatar 2 - yes. This film - no. David notMD (talk) 15:57, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
That's the same advice as I gave above at WP:Teahouse#Film page got declined, so the consensus is very much that most yet-to-be-released films are not notable. If you don't move it back to draft, Excellenc1, the new page patrol are likely to do so. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:00, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

@Michael D. Turnbull: Ah come on now. This will be moved to draft, then y'all will delete it, then when this movie releases, some other admin host reviewer rollback holback person will make it and this will be his/her 10 gazillionth B-class article, instead of letting me, a peasant, celebrate having made an article that will actually be read by people.
Maybe there's no clarity in what I said but basically this article is my chance to make something that'll get me a lot of views (if that makes sense, and also I said 'chance', there's no certainty if this article will be super popular). Excellenc1 (talk) 16:38, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

I certainly don't go around deleting drafts. On the other hand, notability is a key guideline which you shouldn't be ignoring. Your draft can spring back into life if and when the film gains the necessary independent secondary sources. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:48, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
I'm sorry, Excellenc1, but if your purpose here is to get cr for creating articles and getting a lot of views, then I suggest you give up on Wikipedia and find a site that it about promotion and competition rather than collaboration, because I don't think you are going to get that kind of satisfaction here. See WP:countitis. --ColinFine (talk) 16:58, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

@ColinFine: Maybe I do have WP:countitis based on what I read but what we are talking about right now is not about count. What is the purpose of creating an article if no one will read it? Why would someone create an article on some village in the corner of the world, which hardly anyone would read, than about the latest, most popular event which will actually help people? Excellenc1 (talk) 17:21, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Well, Excellenc1, my answer is that the point of creating an article is to make Wikipedia as complete and valuable a collection of curated knowledge as we can. In most cases we have no idea how many people are going to look at a particular article: why should I care? (Coronavirus has been there since 2003, but I doubt if many people looked at it before 2019). If the article is there for somebody who does want it (or stumble on it) and I have done something to make the article more useful, that's enough for me. I would much rather ors spent their time turning some of the rubbish we have had clogging our encyclopaedia for ten or fifteen years into well-referenced and useful articvles than that they spend their time writing a mediocre article about one more company or brand or band or sports person, who is currently everywhere on the internet anyway and will probably be forgotten in ten years. But that's just my preference (and only a quarter of my s are even in article space, so I hardly practise what I preach!). We all have our own reasons for what we choose to do. But I am suggesting that if you are bothered about whether you get the "cr" (whatever that might mean) for creating an article, then you might not get a lot of satisfaction, because most of the regular ors don't play that game. In any case, if the article is a popular one, the creator will be just one out of several hundred contributors. --ColinFine (talk) 18:15, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
Excellenc1, my suggestion to you is to draftify the article and keep working on it. Move it to article space when the film is released and add critical commentary based on reviews in reliable sources. That is a much better course of action than speculating that more experienced ors are eager to steal the cr from you, which is highly unlikely. As for deleting the draft, that too is highly unlikely unless you leave it untouched for six months. Cullen328 (talk) 18:33, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Good day[]

Are Fascism and Nazism comparable? 2804:14C:5BB1:8AF2:20E5:BC07:A3B7:8CBC (talk) 12:16, 15 January 2022 (UTC) 2804:14C:5BB1:8AF2:20E5:BC07:A3B7:8CBC (talk) 12:16, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Hi, and welcome to the Tea House. This is a place for asking questions about ing Wikipedia. Try asking at our reference desk instead. ––FormalDude talk 12:19, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
Hello. This is a place to ask questions about using Wikipedia; it is not for asking general discussion questions. If you have a concern about the articles on Nazism and Fascism, please discuss your specific concern on the relevant article talk page, Talk:Fascism or Talk:Nazism. Please understand that Wikipedia summarizes independent reliable sources and not the opinions of ors. 331dot (talk) 12:20, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
Additionally, you may find help over at WikiProject Politics or WikiProject History. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 16:46, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Noting Problems with Articles[]

I have been working on multiple articles that I have been ing for encyclopedic tone and am wondering how to add notes such as for "citation needed" or those which appear at the top. I mainly work with visual or most but am willing to use source or for things like this. Thank you in advance. Siguida (talk) 16:59, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Siguida. Please see the cleanup template index for a full list of templates at your disposal. To add an inline tag for a needed citation, you can type '{{citation needed|date=January 2022}}'. In order to add tags to the top of an article in the visual or, you can go to the top of the article and type '{{' and then search for the template you need. There's also a tool called Twinkle which can help you create tags more easily. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 17:34, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
For the common "citation needed" just {{cn}} also works, a bot will come by shortly and add a date. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:49, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
Thank you both
Siguida (talk) 22:35, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Article acceptance[]

Hello, I Would Like To know How I would get my Rugoconites tenuirugosus page ( Accepted? The Reason i Am asking This Question is because When it doesn't Get accepted , it is Because Of Unreliable Sources. The Reason i chose those Sources ( and For The Prehistoric Triloboza Animal page is Because They Are The only 2 sources Which Relate To This Sister Species Of rugoconitesRugoconites Tenuirugosus (talk) 21:20, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Rugoconites Tenuirugosus, The comment from the reviewer is not about the reliability of the sources, but in the lack of proper footnotes. Have you looked at the link WP:REFB for help. They should not be hard-coded with [1] as you have done. MB 21:33, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
And as for your note in the draft about images, you'll find advice at Help:Introduction to images with Wiki Markup, but your file at commons:File:Rugoconites (top left corner) And Rugoconites Tenuirugosus (middle).png is liable for deletion as you have not provided evidence that it is free of copyright. --David Biddulph (talk) 21:49, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Is there a Babel: Userbox for Punjabi Language?[]

I am trying to use {{Babel|ur|en-3|pa}} as pan is the ISO 639 code for Punjabi Language  ~Nabeel~N013i 21:56, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

N013i, the ISO 639-1 code for Punjabi is "pa", so I presume that you can write {{User pa-5}} (or whatever is the appropriate level). -- Hoary (talk) 22:07, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
Thanks Hoary! That totaly nails it, I guess I was just overthinking it ~Nabeel~N013i 22:11, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

"As of" statements[]

On the NYC page, in the blurb before the article, there is a lot of statements that say "as of 2018", and I'm not sure if it has to be changed or we keep these statements as is. For example, there is a sentence that says NYC is home to the highest number of billionaires in the world citing Forbes from 2018 when according to Forbes in 2021 it is not. Thank you! 22:14, 15 January 2022 (UTC) Real60isanumber (talk) 22:14, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Real60isanumber, and welcome to the Teahouse. As long as you can find a reliable source for updated information, you're welcome to update it. (Note that Forbes publishes both reliable and unreliable articles: see its entry on WP:RSNP). In a case like this, if the source is reliable, then it's worth updating it; but it is up to orial discretion whether to keep the historical information as well or not. You could make your choice, and be aware that other ors may disagree with you and make further changes (or even revert your ), and then you can discuss it on the talk page; or you could decide to open a discussion on the talk page first. (See WP:BRD). --ColinFine (talk) 22:25, 15 January 2022 (UTC)


Does someone know how to switch 11.3 pounds (5,100 g)? should be switched (SI units are the primary units), but Im not sure how. This is for the article. 2001:4455:1A9:E100:314E:78B4:7061:9471 (talk) 23:31, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

{{Convert|5100|g|lb}} gives "5,100 grams (11.2 lb)" or maybe I don't understand your question? RudolfRed (talk) 23:50, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
If this is about the article White-browed nuthatch, it's ridiculous to state that a nuthatch weighs 11.3 pounds (11.3 grams would at least be possible). Is the OP sure that he or she has accurately reproduced the information in the cited source? Deor (talk) 00:22, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Deor It was on Chinese nuthatch GAN, not sure how convertion works. I think RudolfRed example seems to be what it is. My remaining problem now is how to turn foortnotes sec into single column. 2001:4455:1A9:E100:D855:CA3:25C0:3CCE (talk) 00:38, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
The French version of the article says the weight is 8-11 grams, not 5100 grams. I've updated the article to correspond to the French version. MB 01:22, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Could you make footnote also into a single column if only if you can. Many thanks. 2001:4455:1A9:E100:D855:CA3:25C0:3CCE (talk) 01:33, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Columns are best left unspecified due to the variation of devices that can be used. The footnote section is already one column on my computer with my normal window settings. If I enlarge the window to extremely wide, it changes to two columns. This is a feature of the browser that changes the display to best suit the size of the screen. On my phone, which is very narrow, there is just one column also. MB 01:48, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
I see. Me neither when I viewed it on my phone, I was just following all the concerns. Thanks for the infos. 2001:4455:1A9:E100:D855:CA3:25C0:3CCE (talk) 01:55, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Not a question, just thought this was funny (but also kind of a question)[]

As it turns out, due to a strange by an IP back in November 2017, our page Carl (name) calls the PBS children's show Arthur a "fighting game" (fixed now). Now onto an actual question: where are we supposed to draw the line for 'Fictional characters' sections? Having their own article? Major roles in a major piece of media? Their own subsection of a given article? The one on CJ from GTA and Carl Grimes from TWD, for example, seem like no-brainers if a section like this is to exist. Carl Winslow, despite not having his own separate article, also seems like a compelling case. But then you get to e.g. Carl from Meet the Robinsons; not a minor character and not a minor film, but overall not an especially major character in a film that wasn't a crazy hit. And then you get even further into e.g. Carl Gould from Arthur, a super minor and seemingly non-notable character, or 'Carl', the nickname used for the Guardian of Forever in two episodes of Star Trek: Discovery. It starts to feel less like "These are characters with enough pop cultural presence that you could reasonably be searching for them by looking at this disambiguation page" and more like WP:POPCULTURE. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 01:17, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Hello, TheTechnician27. I just took a look at that article and it seems that almost all of the real people listed there have Wikipedia biographies, while many of the fictional characters do not have articles. In my opinion, this type of list article should only include people or fictional characters that have actual Wikipedia articles. Otherwise, this type of article tends to get clogged up by trivia and unverifiable content. Cullen328 (talk) 02:19, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Seeing this reminded me of Chloe Jones (disambiguation) that I mooted for deletion (obviously unsuccessfully). Pointless, linking to black entries, IMO; even the active redirects are tenuous.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 02:42, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
You may want to take a look at the WP:LISTPEOPLE guideline, which supports Cullen328's interpretation: a person should be included in a list only if the person meets the Wikipedia notability requirement. In general, this means a person should be included in a list only if there is already a Wikipedia article about them (or in rarer cases, a Wikipedia article could clearly be written about them but hasn't been yet). CodeTalker (talk) 17:43, 16 January 2022 (UTC)


Hey, livvy here (talk) 04:27, 16 January 2022 (UTC) So, I don't know if you got my post. Please contact me back. -Livvy

Hi, Livvy. Are you referring to #Wendy Choo WWE above? See the answers there. --ColinFine (talk) 14:33, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

adding a map to the info box[]

Can I please get some help? I was trying to add this map to the Wikipedia page Sackville. I was hoping to show the boundaries. Would really appreciate some help. Bcritical (talk) 04:58, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

@Bcritical Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. I would hope you would be able to find all the advice you would need by following the resources provided at Wikipedia:Maps for Wikipedia, especially on how Template:Maplink map is utilised. I would advise experimenting with different version in your personal sandbox before trying to insert anything in a live article, as this is a great way to learn. Another tip is to find an existing page which does something similar to what you know you want to achieve, and then to look at the source code to work out how it was done. I hope this helps. Cheers, Nick Moyes (talk) 12:33, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Nick Moyes Hi Nick, thanks for the advice, I will try this out. I know I should have used my sandbox, I was overconfident, oops. I had tried to copy from the WP article Windsor but I could not see any addition of coordinates there. I thought I had copied the coding exactly and couldn't see what I was missing. I clearly changed something and didn't revert it, my bad. It is always a good learning experience. --Bcritical (talk) 00:19, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Google Indexing[]

Please how long does it take for a newly created Wikipedia page/article to be indexed on google and does it happen automatically or there are steps to follow. Thanks. MrMarvE (talk) 05:44, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

@MrMarvE: Read this.AssumeGoodWraith (talk | contribs) 05:53, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
@MrMarvE: Welcome to the Teahouse. New pages in mainspace are indexed after 90 days or when reviewed by a New Pages Patroller, whichever comes first. Wikipedia:NPP has more information. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 05:53, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
MrMarvE, articles created by ors with the autopatrolled user right are immediately available for search engine indexing. I have that right, and have created new articles a few times and then I continued Googling the topic to improve the article, and less than five minutes later, my brand new article is at the top of Google's search results. That is an impressive thing to see. Cullen328 (talk) 17:45, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
@MrMarvE: In addition to what others have stated, if you have any relationship with or are Marvellous Odiete, you must disclose it on your user page. Please see WP:PAID. I say this because you coincidentally have a photoshoot of the subject listed as your own work, you submitted the draft several times over the course of a few months at AfC, and your username seems to be a possible reference to the subject ("MrMarvE" ~= "Mr. Marvellous Efe"). TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 05:23, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
@TheTechnician27: I have no relationship or affiliation with the subject and i do not own the photoshoot file, i made so many inexplicable rookie mistakes starting from my account creation to writing articles. i have since been spending to study the Wiki guidelines and won’t be making contributions or writing articles until i fully understand the guidelines. I'll be writing more articles in the nearest future once i'm confident enough. Thanks. MrMarvE (Talk page)

External links to actual movies[]

Of the almost 300 movies I've seen recently, all but just a couple were available free on-line (Internet Archive, You Tube, or But when looking at their Wikipedia articles, I only recall seeing one that has an external link to the actual movie. Is there a reason this isn't done all the time, when available? Pete Best Beatles (talk) 06:34, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Pete Best Beatles, not knowing what you mean by "free", I wonder about the copyright status of your almost 300 movies. Please see WP:ELNEVER. -- Hoary (talk) 07:16, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Rusalkii: Re your comments about my bio[]

 – Turned into a header. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 07:50, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the time to review my bio submission. I appreciate your comments. I am new to the process of exchanging through this process and am hoping my response is getting to you this way. I will wait a couple of days if need be to see. If I don't get a reply I will dig deeper to try to reach you another way. If I am stumbling through the process and can be advised on the correct way, please advise.

I got that my references were inadequate to substantiate the validity of my crs in my bio. I think that's what you meant? Since I have a diverse background, all being truthful and can be substantiated, I just started with references pertaining to my surfing background. I feel that you wanted references for all my crs, correct?

If so, some references go far back in time and may be only sources through images of articles from the original media. Would that do? Would providing media titles and dates suffice? Can I place images linked to a URL? Also, I am not well versed and don't quite understand the process of doing that on Wikipedia. I sure could use help.

I tend to be frugle and thrifty with my money, so I'd rather try my hand at ing rather than pay for a service , which can get quite expensive. I hope you understand and can appreciate that.

Yours truly,

Bob Bobpurvey1 (talk) 07:20, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Symbol watching blue lashes.svg Courtesy ping: RusalkiiTenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 07:51, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
The best way of talking to an individual or is through their user talk page, in this case User talk:Rusalkii. As a starting point you ought to read Wikipedia's advice against trying to create an autobiography. When you get round to creating an article on a more suitable subject you'll find advice at WP:Your first article. You need to make sure that references are provided as in-line citations, see Help:Referencing for beginners. References don't necessarily have to be online; references to newspaper articles can use {{cite news}} if you provide the name of the publication, date of publication, & page number. Images of newspaper articles may well not be permitted as they could be breaches of copyright. We would not recommend that you pay anyone to Wikipedia for you; they would need to declare their paid ing, and many of the ors fail to provide the service which they offer. --David Biddulph (talk) 08:22, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

COURTESY: Draft is at User:Bobpurvey1/sandbox; Submitted and declined. Needs more refs, and in proper ref format. Also, will need to decide if potential for notability is the surfing career or the acting career. Think of it as one or the other, not a hybrid. See List of surfers for examples of content and refs. David notMD (talk) 11:31, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Moved to Draft:Bob Purvey. David notMD (talk) 16:40, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

January 2022[]

Paige is a South African Singer but why do you not create a page for her? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 09:35, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

If you can demonstrate that she meets Wikipedia's criteria for notability, and particularly WP:NMUSIC, you can create a draft (see WP:your first article), but you must not hijack the existing disambiguation page. --David Biddulph (talk) 09:44, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Complaint against a user[]

In the talk page of the article Mohammed Shami, an or told me "####LOOK HERE, I AM DISCUSSING IT YOU FOOL####". Now, is this a proper language of discussing a matter? After watching my reply to him, he cunningly removed his words. Now, I think proper strides should be taken against the concerned user. Any veteran user, kindly handle this issue. Thanks Michri michri (talk) 12:57, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Hello; I am a veteran user. Editors should avoid calling other ors fools. Aside from once calling you a fool, this or seems to have been polite and amiable. Please discuss the article. -- Hoary (talk) 13:06, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
@Michri michri: - I've issued advice to the or in question. Hopefully that is the end of the matter. Mjroots (talk) 19:05, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Mjroots, thank you for your aid. My intention was just to make the concerned user aware that the kind of language he used is intolerable in Wikipedia. ThanksMichri michri (talk) 09:08, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
The or in question has accepted it was wrong. This is now closed. Mjroots (talk) 18:22, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Page Has been reviewed[]

Just received a notice that "Page User:N013i has been reviewed."

What does this means? I am aware that new pages require a patrol but Its not like my user page was created yesterday. — Preceding unsigned comment added by N013i (talkcontribs) 16:26, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

@N013i: New page patrol is supposed to check all namespaces; however, patrollers usually spend the most time in the mainspace, where their efforts are most needed. Behind-the-scenes stuff like userpages are usually no problem, so less manpower (if any) is spent going through those. The patroller likely just stumbled upon your userpage and marked it as reviewed.  Ganbaruby! (talk) 17:35, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
@Ganbaruby: It was me.AssumeGoodWraith (talk | contribs) 01:59, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
@N013i: I apologise for the mobile misclick. A bit. – AssumeGoodWraith (talk | contribs) 01:58, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
@AssumeGoodWraith: No problem, I'm sorry but I just can't help my paranoid tendencies. ~Nabeel~N013i 21:59, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Quora as source[]

Can we use Quora answers as a reliable source for citation? Religiousmyth (talk) 17:38, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

See the entry for Quora in WP:RSP. Quora is a self-published source containing user-generated content, so it is considered unreliable, although in certain specific cases described there, it can be used as a primary source. CodeTalker (talk) 17:49, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
everything is self-sourced including media, press. Quora have both false and real information based on the user knowledge and research. can't we use Quora highly up-voted answer as reliable source for wikipedia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Religiousmyth (talkcontribs) 17:46, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
@Religiousmyth: No, because what determines the highest-upvoted answer are users, and there's no screening criteria when registering. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 19:13, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Page Acceptance[]


I Would Like To Like to know If There Is A way To solve a issue Where A Article (like mine: about An Animal has Little References. What I'm Trying To say Here Is that my page (the Rugoconites_Tenuirugosus one) Keeps On Getting Rejected Due to Low amounts of References, Even Though there Are only 3 Websites Which Are References ( The Three websites I used For the page are , And, They Are The only Few Websites Which Reference this Animal In The Wikipedia page I've Made. If Someone Can Find me More References or Websites Mentioning Information About Rugoconites Tenuirugosus I Would Greatly Appreciate that And I Will be sure to add it To The Page.

Thank you, have a nice day! Rugoconites Tenuirugosus (talk) 19:22, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

See existing thread #Page Acceptance from yesterday. --David Biddulph (talk) 19:39, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Readers here are unlikely to have the specialist knowledge to help you. You may have more luck on the talk page of a relevant project; see those listed at Talk:Rugoconites. If there are insufficient sources to justify a new article, you may be able to use those which you have found to support additions to the existing article Rugoconites. --David Biddulph (talk) 19:46, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
@Rugoconites Tenuirugosus: Please do not delete AfC comments from a draft. Your draft refers to a phylum called "Trilobozoa" - where did you read that information? Provide a source for that and resubmit, and you may be successful. Happy ing! GoingBatty (talk) 20:55, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
@Rugoconites Tenuirugosus Whilst you might use capital letters in your username, be aware that specific epithets are never capitalised unless they relate to a proper noun. They are also given in italics. I've reworded your draft a bit and recommend that you start to learn how to search Google books where you will always find better sources than a simple browser search. BTW: your home-made image seems to indicate that we know what colour these organisms were. I find that worrying. please find a better way to caption such images, and to cite sources to show upon which reconstructions they are based. Cheers, Nick Moyes (talk) 17:50, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Managing Mischievous Editing 2[]

I refer to the response by Nick Moyes 16.47 12 December 2021. I cannot see on the article talk page Death of Eleanor de Freitas how to raise the concerns that Nick Moyes says that I should. The references I want to refer to are any from Alexander Economou or Accused Blog. If I am noted as having a conflict of interest, so should Alexander Economou and Accused Blog. The Brooklyn Law Review reference deals with an article from Prof Lisa Avalos. Alexander Economou refers to Prof Avalos in his Accused Blog as his stalker, at the entry for Friday 22 June 2016, which is ridiculous. As this Brooklyn Law Review article is the only academic review of the failings in the CPS's continuation of Alexander Economou's private prosecution of Eleanor, I am keen to include suitable tracts from page 840 onwards. Alice Vachss also wrote about this prosecution in her book 'Sex Crimes' and I want to include a suitable extract. I believe this page was incepted by an or called McPhail; is there any way that McPhail could assist? RobinEllie (talk) 19:29, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

SITUATION: McPhail created the article in October 2018 and has continued as a contributing or. RobinEllie has been ing since May 2020, and has stated that the article Death of Eleanor de Freitas is about his daughter, hence a declared COI (see article Talk page). Can someone guide RobinEllie on how to craft references, and how, on the article's Talk page, to propose changes? David notMD (talk) 19:51, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
@RobinEllie: Welcome to the Teahouse! To start a conversation on the article talk page, go to Talk:Death of Eleanor de Freitas and click on "New section". You can provide references using {{cite web}} or {{cite book}} (see WP:EASYREFBEGIN) and add {{ request}} to get attention from other ors. An alternative is to use the Wikipedia:Edit Request Wizard to walk you through the steps. To get the attention of McPhail (or any other or), you can use {{ping}} (as I used here to send a notification to you). Hope this helps, and happy ing! GoingBatty (talk) 21:02, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Sandbox s don't show up in Read tab[]

I am working on a sandbox at I don't understand why the read tab content is not the same as the page content. I keep having content deleted from the read page even though it is on the page. The missing content changes randomly as far as I can tell. Am I doing something to cause this? Can I fix this? Thanks AnnRos (talk) 19:53, 16 January 2022 (UTC) AnnRos (talk) 19:53, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

You have a large number of syntax errors, as reported by the numerous error messages in red. In each of those, the word "help" in blue is a wikilink to more detailed advice if you need it. If you start a reference with <ref> but forget to finish it with </ref> it is liable to interfere with the display of subsequent text. Sort those errors out, and then look again at how your page is displayed. --David Biddulph (talk) 20:02, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
@AnnRos: Once you've sorted out the unbalanced ref tags, you will then need to not only remove those citations which self-reference to other wikipedia pages, but also remove inline urls to external sites. Neither should be present in an actual encyclopaedia article. Cheers,
@AnnRos: Ooops - fixing ping so you get notified of this advice. Nick Moyes (talk) 22:56, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Content dispute in "LGBT Rights in South Korea"[]

"LGBT Rights in South Korea" contains a sentence that states that the transgender population of South Korea is around 1000 people. The source of this is a South China Morning Post article, which since 2016, more reputable sources (The NY Times, the Atlantic, and Der Spiegel) have described as CCP propaganda. All the same, when I removed this line, my was undone by administrators for not being "constructive." Skye5515 (talk) 19:59, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Skye5515. There is no consensus among ors that the South China Morning Post is an unreliable source, although it should be used with caution with regards to the Chinese Communist Party. Cullen328 (talk) 20:16, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Skye5515, please read WP:SCMP. The or who reverted you is not an administrator. Cullen328 (talk) 20:21, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Your s were not "undone by administrators". I would not have actually labeled them as vandalism. Ruslik_Zero 20:23, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

To whom do I turn?[]

I posed a question on a movie's talk page, but I realize now that it's a medical question, and I have no idea about to whom I should redirect the question. For reference, see "Unsuccessful suicide attempt" at Talk: Elevator to the Gallows. Pete Best Beatles (talk) 00:04, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Nevermind, I've rephrased the sentence so as to avoid the issue. -- Pete Best Beatles (talk) 01:45, 17 January 2022 (UTC)


The section listing Yorkshire natives who have become famous fails to mention Peter Robinson, the author of the Inspector Banks novels. See his wikipedia page at: Peter Robinson (novelist) (talk) 01:11, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

 2001:44C8:464F:467C:1:0:D458:2F7B (talk) 01:44, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

His fame hasn't reached me (not that this means much). The article Yorkshire has no such list; instead, it farms this out to List of people from Yorkshire. A very large number of Yorkshire natives have become famous, and this list should probably be limited (as has already been prescribed/described in Talk:List of people from Yorkshire), which is also where you should suggest the addition of Peter Robinson (novelist). -- Hoary (talk) 02:36, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

mondeo 2011[]

when turning left or right the turning lights are not working i have checked the bulbs and the fuse is there something else i can look at (talk) 04:34, 17 January 2022 (UTC) ian t

Hi Ian, and welcome to the Teahouse! This is a place to ask questions about using Wikipedia, not other questions. You can try asking at the Wikipedia:Reference desk (and clarify that you're referring to a Ford Mondeo automobile). Good luck! GoingBatty (talk) 04:49, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Hi, Ian. I suggest checking out /r/MechanicAdvice over on Reddit. It only takes a few minutes to make an account and post there, and while they seem to usually take on more challenging automotive problems like blown gaskets, they should be able to help you with your turn signals. Hope this helps you out. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 05:13, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

What is the best way to have a photographer donate material to Wikimedia?[]

From time to time I work on articles about the band Pink Floyd (its members, studio musicians, touring musicians, production folks). From time to time I also see photographs removed from articles in these subject areas. I've usually found ways to reach out to the photographers and to sort out having these restored. This was the case recently with this file: that said, I'm not sure I'm going about this the most efficient way. If I know a photographer that is willing to donate files/photography of any of these subjects, and they are not familiar with Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons, what is the simplest, most efficient way for me to ask them to submit their work? Is there an email where they can just send a set of pictures they are willing to donate and a type of license they can specify that will cover that they are donating the picture for public use (I know there are variations, I mean whatever the simplest one might be for them to let the work be used publicly)?

Your feedback is appreciated. 1987atomheartbrother (talk) 05:45, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

See WP:Donating copyrighted materials. --David Biddulph (talk) 10:02, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
@1987atomheartbrother The page that David linked to is quite wordy. But please note the big blue 'Interactive release Generator' button. That links to this tool which guides an image owner, step-by-step, through releasing an image for re-use here, and for generating an email they can attach their image to. So you could give them that simple link separately.
The one thing it doesn't point out (which you can tell them) is that we really don't need to have the highest resolution images, so only upload a file of a size they're comfortable with making available. Oh, and please thank them for us! Nick Moyes (talk) 17:31, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Question on Machan Taylor article[]

Hello Everyone - I had worked for a few weeks, on and off, on an article about vocalist Machan Taylor. I know the draft was rejected but the opportunity for improving it is still open. I hope to improve, among other things, by adding what is a a rather hefty and reputable discography. That said, I really would appreciate instructive feedback on a few things. For context, here is the article:

And here is the reason it was rejected for publishing:

"This submission's references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article—that is, they do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject (see the guidelines on the notability of music-related topics)."

Here are my questions:

1) I noticed an article for a similar subject to Machan. While my draft was rejected on the basis of the references that are there, I am trying to understand how this similar and apparently related subject's article was published with know references (except some linked content): It seems both Machan Taylor and Kevin Bartlett have had similar trajectories - in some respects Machan Taylor has done more international work. I think both subjects have done notable work and should have articles. But I'm not sure I can tell how Taylor's is less publishable than Bartlett's.

2) The reason it was rejected states the articles cited must be reliable, secondary, independent, and they must not just 'mention the subject in passing'. None of the sources cited mention Machan Taylor in passing. All of them are focused on her as the subject of the interview or story. Some of the resources are smaller publications but they are reputable and widely read in the markets that they are published in and for - these are geographic regions; I guess I'm trying to understand how that would be a less credible source than a larger paper: as an academic, I have a hard time understanding how a regional paper that is the most important publication in that region, isn't reputable. That said, there are a couple of international sources that are devoted to music and Pink Floyd and interview notable people on a regular basis.

3) Subjects that have done very similar work throughout their careers and have performed on the exact same projects as Taylor have published articles, e.g.,,, I think these musicians should have articles and are notable. I just think Taylor is of the same scale of notability.

I respect the decision to decline this draft and am working on improving it. But am trying to understand, on the three points above. My intent is not to imply the existence of one article should be the basis for another, I'm trying to understand how substantively the Taylor article comes up short in comparison to any of the other articles on comparable subjects mentioned in the three points above.

Any feedback is sincerely and truly appreciated. 1987atomheartbrother (talk) 06:19, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Hello, 1987atomheartbrother. The English language Wikipedia has almost six and a half million articles, and many of them have evaded serious scrutiny and may have serious problems. Arguing that "I found another article with serious problems so therefore I should be able to add my new article even thoogh it too has serious problems" is an exceptionally weak argument. Instead, thousands of Wikipedia ors work every single day to either improve articles with problems or to delete them. ​
You are correct that significant coverage in independent reliable sources is required to establish notability, and then you mention interviews. By definition, interviews are not independent sources since they are based on what the subject of the article/draft says about themself. We take the word "independent" very seriously. Now, I will take a look at your draft. Cullen328 (talk) 06:34, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
A couple of your sources are from minor publications and possibly OK but most of them are very weak. If she has had such a long and distinguished career working with such major acts, then surely you can provide higher quality references. Cullen328 (talk) 06:42, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Thank you, Cullen328, I appreciate the feedback: I just want to underscore: I mentioned why I was looking at those other articles in contrast to the Machan Taylor - definitely not being argumentative at all. In fact, I mentioned that to pre-emptively avoid that giving that impression. Please note: she has had a notable career, but I think it's notable on the same scale as the colleagues whose articles I was drawing a comparison too (I find drawing those comparisons educational as far as understanding when an article might be worth drafting or not - it's the similarities in careers and sources that made me curious about the decision to decline the draft). As with those other artists, she won't generate the type of press a Madonna, Michael Jackson, or someone in that vein would generate - or that Pink Floyd itself would. But as a consumer of knowledge here, I have in the past looked for information about this subject myself and I have seen the case made for an article about her in some of the discussions and talk pages here. I'll add more resources, and hope for a robust, objective evaluation.--1987atomheartbrother (talk) 07:49, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
1987atomheartbrother, on Wikipedia, it is all about the quality of the reliable independent sources, which are like 24 karat gold here. Poorly referenced or unreferenced articles like Kevin Bartlett (musician) should either be improved or deleted. Please do not try to emulate overtly bad articles. When you say that she has had a "notable career", you are expected to prove that by providing references to high quality sources describing her career in detail. Otherwise, it is just an empty personal opinion lacking credibility among Wikipedia ors. Cullen328 (talk) 08:00, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Take heart. An important distinction is that the draft was Declined, not Rejected, the former meaning that the reviewer saw potential to succeed. I see that there has been no action on the draft since October. The greatest weakness is that refs 5 and 6 are interviews. Also, draft mentions two solo albums. Information? Any published reviews? David notMD (talk) 08:21, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Bartlett now proposed for deletion, which will happen in a week if not improved. Durga McBroom at risk for lack of references. Fury at risk for poor refs (interviews, name-mentions with no extended content about her, etc.) 08:37, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Thank you, Cullen328, for the additional feedback: I plan to add a discography to the draft, including her two solo albums and reviews. I'll do my best to provide strong resources. I appreciate all the information. Since October, I've gathered some but not added anything to the article draft. I've saved the resources. Let's hope it turns out to be a good article!--1987atomheartbrother (talk) 09:03, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
1987atomheartbrother, if you want the article to survive as an article, you should concentrate on finding reliable independent published sources with extensive discussion of the subject. Adding a discography won't help it survive. Maproom (talk) 13:14, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
maproom, thanks. Context for that was the brief exchange on her two albums.--1987atomheartbrother (talk) 13:55, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

User keeps adding back reverted content, trying to avoid an war[]

On the article Malharrao, a user has been incrementally adding unreferenced information since 12 January 2022 about someone named Bellamkonda Malharrao. This user also submitted an article about this person to AfC, which was denied on 14 January. A few hours ago I manually reverted the article to its original state before the user's additions, which removed about 13.6k bytes, and left a warning on the user's talk page about adding unreferenced material. About 10 minutes later and the information was copy pasted back by the user. I reverted it once again and left a longer summary trying to explain why I reverted the , but since then it has been added back a third time by this user. I don't want to revert more and cause an war, but I'm not sure how to get the message through to them. I'm also not sure what to do next, if the appropriate step would be to report the user (and if so, where) or to try again explaining how/why to use their sandbox for this instead of adding it to this article, which is not about that person. Any advice appreciated, Normal Name (talk) 06:37, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

@Normal Name: Obviously disruptive s are exempt from the three revert rule. I've reverted the and reiterated what you've pointed out. If it happens again, the place to report is is WP:AIV. Meanwhile, I see that you put your revert reasoning in an summary; we usually do it as a talk page message since many new ors may not know summaries exist and won't see your reasoning.  Ganbaruby! (talk) 07:59, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
@Ganbaruby: Obvious vandalism is exempt. Also, why not put reasoning in an summary? It would be like rolling back a good faith . – AssumeGoodWraith (talk | contribs) 10:20, 17 January 2022 (UTC)


hello, how do i add my company to Wikipedia and it appear in the google search as well Mwanzotoursuganda (talk) 10:36, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Mwanzotoursuganda Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Like many people, you have a common, fundamental misunderstanding as to what Wikipedia is. It is not a place for companies to tell the world about themselves, and is not a directory where mere existence merits inclusion. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia with criteria for inclusion. Wikipedia is not concerned with your company's online presence or in enhancing search results for it. A Wikipedia article must summarize what independent reliable sources with significant coverage have chosen on their own to say about your company, showing how it meets Wikipedia's special definition of a notable company. This is usually extremely difficult for people in your position to do. Please read WP:COI and WP:PAID for information on required formal disclosures you must make, as well as additional information. 331dot (talk) 10:49, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Declined my Article on Zimri Palaseen[]

Why my article titled "Zimri Palaseen is declined twice. The link to the drafted article is as below. KIndly help me in publishing it LalKhan2022 (talk) 11:09, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

The explanation is in the feedback boxes, both on the draft and on your user talk page. The words in blue are wikilinks to further advice. --David Biddulph (talk) 12:18, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
@LalKhan2022: Whole sections of the article are unsourced. For example, in Livelihood section, it has two setences. Where are the references for that? If it is published in the state, ir will either be deleted or sent back to draft. For the whole article, you have one reference. Follow the guidance of the reviewing ors, specifically read WP:RS, WP:PSTS. Also please look at the short tutorial, WP:REFB that describes how to create inline citation. To create references for village, for example, look for source amongst geographic gazetter's. These are usually government or university sites that have details on specific villages, lakes and other geographic features. They are ideal for sources. Hope that helps! 12:22, 17 January 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scope creep (talkcontribs)

Farming Simulator 16[]

 – Created section header. GoingBatty (talk) 16:18, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Harrypot0122 (talk) 15:02, 17 January 2022 (UTC) I have been playing FS 16 for quite some time now but there are lots of things that I am still curious about. There is no satisfactory content anywhere on the internet nor on Wikipedia. Can anyone update it, it would be a great help.

@Harrypot0122: Welcome to the Teahouse! Since Wikipedia has an article about Farming Simulator, you could post specific questions on Talk:Farming Simulator if your goal is to encourage ors to improve the article. Hope this helps, and happy ing! GoingBatty (talk) 16:22, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
@Harrypot0122: You can also add information about the game in Farming Simulator yourself if you want to! Just make sure to back your information with reliable sources. ― Kaleeb18TalkCaleb 17:53, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

i need help regarding a entry[]

hi, i really need some help with my wikipedia entry. i am working for an artist and his estate and I want to create an article for him. for some strange reason the jpg got uploaded but not the wording and i just noticed that i got blocked. here is the link to the jpg. that should be changed to an text entry: can someone guide me through? I am clearly making some mistakes here. very best,  Colettedelamaison (talk) 15:05, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Collettedelamaison Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Since you say you work for the artist, you must make a required formal declaration of that, please read the paid ing policy. 331dot (talk) 15:09, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
@Collettedelamaison: I have reverted the addition on the Commons file page for that image commons:File:Carlo_Valsecchi.jpg where an IP user (you?) had added a biography. Files are held on Commons for use across all language versions of Wikipedia but only the individual projects may hold biographies. Also, I note that the file says the photograph was taken by Robert Matza, sourced from a webpage. That page says "all rights reserved", so there is no evidence the image is licensed in a way that would allow its use within Wikipedia. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:25, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
@Colettedelamaison I'd also recommend that you make sure to remain object and only source data from reliable and notable sources. Note the emphasis. If you attempt to make use of either original research or other information that you have got from the subject, the chances of your article being review successfully will be very slim. (If not impossible.) Signed, Pichemist ( Contribs | Talk ) 19:27, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

thank you very much for your respond. robert matza is a friend of mine. but yes, I took the images from this homepage. should i just start all over again? and take a image which I can use? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Colettedelamaison (talkcontribs) 15:31, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

I have an other question. is there someone who could help me creating this page? is there such community i can adress? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Colettedelamaison (talkcontribs) 15:34, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

@Colettedelamaison — You can create a draft at Articles for creation. Just enter your page name, and it will load as “Draft:(page name here)”. However, you must have Mr. Matza’s permission before using his images, as this could potentially be a copyright violation (see WP:COPYVIO). As for the community, there are WikiProjects; the subject could potentially fall within the scope of one of them. — 3PPYB6TALKCONTRIBS — 16:15, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Your draft is currently at User:Colettedelamaison/sandbox. You can copy/paste content from there into a draft. As Robert Matza is alive, he could create an account and add his own photos to Commons, for you to put in the draft. He needs to be aware that by doing so he would be renouncing all rights to the photos, including commercial usage. Also, your Sandbox draft has no references. You must find and add references ABOUT him. Listing his shows does not in any way whatsoever establish notability in the Wikipedia sense of the word. David notMD (talk) 16:54, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
The photograph you uploaded to Commons is a low-resolution image that Robert Matza may be willing to release under an appropriate license. See WP:Donating copyrighted materials for how he can do that if you were to ask him to do so. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:58, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

How to find my undeleted s[]

Hi there, I just want to know what is undeleted s and how can I check my undeleted s  Onmyway22 talk 15:57, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

@Onmyway22: At the top of the page is a "contributions" link which shows your s. See Special:Contributions/Onmyway22 RudolfRed (talk) 16:12, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
@RudolfRed: I did not get. clarify more ? I mean how to find the count ? Onmyway22 talk 16:15, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
@Onmyway22 — Hello, and welcome to the Teahouse. Undeleted s are s that are publicly visible, and show up as accessible permanent links on your user contributions page. However, deleted s are s that will not show up as permanent links, or are deleted from your contributions page altogether. There are multiple reasons as to why your s might be deleted. For one, an administrator could have deleted the page you were ing, or deleted a single revision (WP:REVDEL). Or, it could be privacy-breaching, and, in that case, an oversighter will come and suppress your s. Hopefully this helps. — 3PPYB6TALKCONTRIBS — 16:20, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
And, to find your count, go to Special:Preferences and see your count (note that the counter will include both deleted and undeleted s). To find a more detailed report, look here. — 3PPYB6TALKCONTRIBS — 16:25, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
( conflict)@Onmyway22: Welcome to the Teahouse! To get the count of your undeleted s, you can do the following:
  1. At the top right of any Wikipedia page, click "Contributions" to go to Special:Contributions/Onmyway22.
  2. Scroll all the way to the bottom and click on "Edit count" to go to
  3. Under "Basic Information" on the left, I see that you have 1,485 Live s (undeleted s) plus 286 Deleted s for a total of 1,771 Total s.
Hope this helps, and keep up the good work! GoingBatty (talk) 16:29, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Both you are awesome. Thank you Onmyway22 talk 16:35, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
@Onmyway22 — No problem. — 3PPYB6TALKCONTRIBS — 16:36, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Love is a losing game[]

I have ed Genre of Amy Winehouse's Love is a losing game about 3 times and advised not to it again without approval. Sorry about that! I recently added quotes Tony Bennett "We've lost one of the Jazz greats" as the source but this was not accepted. The genre is shown as Soul. Do you agree that the genre should be jazz? I'm looking for consensus on this. I was unable to add this to the articles talk page as I saw no option for doing so. Many thanks. Signed, Lyricality. Lyricality (talk) 19:11, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Lyricality. Bennett's remark is not adequate because singers often perform several genres of music. You need to provide a reference to a published reliable source that says that this song's specific genre is jazz. Wikipedia ors cannot just listen to a song and say, "that sounds like jazz to me". That is original research which is not allowed on Wikipedia. Cullen328 (talk) 19:17, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Lyricality, please read Wikipedia:Genre warrior. Cullen328 (talk) 19:22, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Please also read Amy Winehouse#Critical appraisal where you will find quite a few reliable sources that verify that she was a soul singer as well as a jazz singer. Cullen328 (talk) 19:28, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
@Lyricality: Welcome to the Teahouse! Per the Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle, you may discuss this on the article talk page Talk:Love Is a Losing Game and provide a reliable source. Hope this helps, and happy ing! GoingBatty (talk) 20:09, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Making A new project[]


Hello people , It's been A Nice Time Editing And Asking Questions On The Teahouse about My First Wikipedia "page" And How To improove (Sorry For my bad Spelling and Grammar I am not english) The page itself, It ultimately Failed , though , It was Fun To make. Though , I am Now started A new Page About Eoporpita Medusa, And I Can't Seem To Get The Sandbox Which I Have To Work with, if Anyone knows How To make A new Page By Working In the sandbox, It Would be greatly Appreciated.

I Would also Like to Say What The Possible References For That topic might be, if their unreliable For The page / Are Suspicious, Please Let Me Know by responding to this message, Here Are The References I might include In that Page: (and yes that IS A unofficial Wiki , but I Had To use It To have More references To work Off of) And

Do Note That I Did use The same Websites ( and Which Were In My First File, If Those Two References Are Enough To Take Down The page I Would be making By using help From the teahouse, I Will be sure To Immedietly (sorry for my Bad spelling , as mentioned before , I am not an english person) so that the Article Could atleast have A Little Amount Of Possibly Reliable sources.

Happy ing everyone! Rugoconites Tenuirugosus (talk) 19:39, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Please stop capitalizing words. (My fear is that you will do the same in your draft.) In your first sentence, the only word that should have been capitalized was English. Use WP:YFA to create your draft. However, rather than attempt an article for Eoporpita medusa, I recommend you work on improving the article Eoporpita, as medusa is the only species. David notMD (talk) 20:03, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
@Rugoconites Tenuirugosus: Since English is not your native language, you may wish to post your suggestions on how to improve the article Eoporpita on the article's talk page: Talk:Eoporpita. GoingBatty (talk) 20:16, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
So setting aside the fact (as has been pointed out) that Eoporpita already exists and implicitly covers Eoporpita Medusa, I am concerned about the comment

... that IS A unofficial Wiki , but I Had To use It To have More references ...

If the info is actually not available from a reliable source, and so insist that you need to rely on an article from some wiki, that would have you off to a bad start. It's difficult to avoid running into disputes on a variety of grounds, but the explanation you offer in this case would just not hold water. Fabrickator (talk) 20:57, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
@Rugoconites Tenuirugosus I need to make the following points:
  • The articles about species in this encyclopaedia must be based on sound science. User-generated websites are not reliable and should be ignored.
  • You only need one really good scientific paper to demonstrate that a taxon is validly published for us to accept an article about it. Our justification for this can be read at WP:SPECIESOUTCOMES.
  • I have cleaned up Draft:Rugoconites tenuirugosus and am happy to accept it, and have moved it into the main encyclopaedia (which we refer to as 'Mainspace')
  • This source suggests the taxonomy is very unclear, and could need to be assigned to a newly-erected genus (Wadea).
  • If a genus only contains one species, then we only ever create an article about the genus. We do not need a second article about the species itself. Should scientists decide that R.tenuirugosus should be renamed Wadea tenuirugosus, then we would rename the article to just Wadea, and keep a WP:REDIRECT to help people find it from the earlier name.
  • Always try to keep your fingers off the 'Shift' key on your keyboard unless it is the beginning of a sentence, or you encounter a proper name like China, Jesus, London or a genus name, like Homo, or a recognised geological period like the Carboniferous Period.
I hope this all makes sense. And well done on your first article, but please bear in mind the copyright issues I raised with you earlier. And avoid using amateur artist's impressions of species unless they can be shown to derive from a scientific source. Nick Moyes (talk) 00:26, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

E.O. Wilson[]

The article for E.O. Wilson says that him and Irene Wilson were married. However, he says that he married a woman named Renee in his book Naturalist. They were married up until his death last year. How is it possible that this is the case? Is Irene a version of Renee? Cerambycidfreak (talk) 20:17, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

@Cerambycidfreak: Welcome to the Teahouse! I suggest you post your question on Talk:E. O. Wilson with the details of the passage from Naturalist. It's possible that sources disagree on his wife's name. Hope this helps, and happy ing! GoingBatty (talk) 20:26, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
It would be more correct to say that Renee is a version of Irene. See Irene (given name).--Shantavira|feed me 20:31, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
@Cerambycidfreak: I went to and searched for "Irene", and it seems that E. O. Wilson wrote "My wife Irene (Renee)..." GoingBatty (talk) 20:31, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
So, Irene is interchangeable with Renee? Cerambycidfreak (talk) 20:33, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Hello, Cerambycidfreak. His New York Times obituary says that he married Irene Kelly when they were young, and that she died a few months before he did. This website hints that Renee was her nickname. Cullen328 (talk) 20:34, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Thanks! That clears things up. I was just confused... Cerambycidfreak (talk) 20:43, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Unexpected question[]

What is use dmy dates ? 2603:8000:F400:FCEA:E508:761C:2416:11B0 (talk) 20:27, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:DMY.--Shantavira|feed me 20:32, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
( conflict) Welcome to the Teahouse! The template {{use dmy dates}} tells ors (and scripts/bots) that the given article uses dates in the form of day-month-year, as in 17 January 2022. Other articles use mdy dates, as in January 17, 2022. Hope this helps, and happy ing! GoingBatty (talk) 20:33, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Using official Facebook page as a reference[]

Hi! I was ing the page Islamabad Football Association, and found that it does not have an official website. However, it does have a Facebook page [10] which it uses instead of a website. All official announcements, events, and even newspaper articles and media coverage are posted on this Facebook page (in the form of a post, image or a video). I was wondering if it was possible to use these posts and images as relevant references when ing the page. Regards. Toofllab (talk) 22:03, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

@Toofllab: Only in a limited way. See WP:ABOUTSELF RudolfRed (talk) 22:07, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
fixed the link. RudolfRed (talk) 22:08, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
@Toofllab Please do not attempt to copy and upload any images from any organisation's website or social media account. Unless they are very clearly licenced for commercial re-use (which is most unlikely) , these images will all be copyright. So you may not upload them and release them for commercial reuse as if you actually owned them. If you think they might be suitable licenced, please pop back and give us a hyperlink to the relevant page so we can check them for you. Thanks, Nick Moyes (talk) 23:34, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Paywalled Sources[]

For one of the articles I am working on, there is a source which is completely paywalled and the article which is cited is inaccesabile otherwise. What is the protocol around this Thank you in advance Siguida (talk) 22:46, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Siguida, and welcome to the Teahouse! WP:PAYWALL may give you some insight into this, but we may be able to give you a more comprehensive, tailored answer if you specify the article and the paywalled source. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 22:54, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
@Siguida Some paywalled sources such as journals may be available to users via the Wikipedia Library, but this won't apply to news media, I'm afraid. Nick Moyes (talk) 23:35, 17 January 2022 (UTC)