Talk:List of political entities in the 1st century


This page purportedly lists sovereign states, but it only contains a table of all kinds of polities and tribal entities of an unclear nature, such as Scythia and the Blemmyes. It should be cleaned up to match the other lists of sovereign states. QVVERTYVS (hm?) 15:11, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

This page (List of sovereign states in the 1st century) contains the same type of states as this page and this other page. I understand your concern but I do not think I am doing something new.
Furthermore, since the modern idea of "sovereign state" did not exist back then, there is no clear identifier for what was and was not a sovereign state for the time. Should you rather it was just called "List of states in the 1st century"? tahc chat 02:58, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
That would be slightly better, given that List of sovereign states in the 1st century BC actually establishes its own topic as an anachronism (!). But then still we don't have a definition of "state" to go by. What sources are you using to compile these lists? QVVERTYVS (hm?) 06:37, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
The lists were called list of states because the term is much wider and covers many different state types tahc changed them all to list of political entities but linked to sovereign states that does not apply to these time periods nor state type there was also a description/definition for each list here "The development of states—large-scale, populous, politically centralized, and socially stratified polities/societies governed by powerful rulers marks one of the major milestones in the evolution of human societies. Archaeologists often distinguish between primary (or pristine) states and secondary states. Primary states evolved independently through largely internal developmental processes rather than through the influence of any other pre-existing state. The earliest known primary states appeared in Mesopatamia c. 3700 BC, during the end of the Neolithic period, in Egypt c. 3300 BC, in the Indus Valley c. 2500 BC, India c. 1700 BC, and in China c. 1600 BC. As they interacted with their less developed neighbors through trade, warfare, migration, and more generalized ideological influences, the primary states directly or indirectly fostered the emergence of secondary states in surrounding areas, for example, the Hittites in Anatolia, the Minoan and Mycenaean states of the Aegean, or the Nubian kingdoms in the Sudan. Professor Gil Stein at the University of Chicago Oriental Institute states "The excavations and archaeological surveys of the last few decades have vastly increased both the quantity and quality of what we know about ancient states and urbanism. Archaeologists have broadened the scope of their research beyond the traditional focus on rulers and urban elites. Current research now aims at understanding the role of urban commoners, craft specialists, and village-based farmers in the overall organization of ancient states and societies. Given the immense geographical scope encompassed by the term 'the Ancient World'".[1] This list's the main types state that existed in Africa, Americas, Central Asia, East Asia, Europe, Eurasian Steppe, South Asia, and West Asia" which is self explanatory but tahc removed all them.--Navops47 (talk) 03:44, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
Fine with me if you want to link to State (polity) instead. tahc chat 03:58, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Flags and Population[]

There is still a lot of data missing; we should definitely add flags for the known nations, and perhaps some populations? We should also add references that support some of the tribal nations' existence. Aryamanarora (talk) 12:54, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

National flags did not come in use until the early modern era. QVVERTYVS (hm?) 14:22, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Populations will be mostly unknown, but even when "known" would be just guesses. tahc chat 14:55, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Still, guesses have been made for some of them, and can be interesting. QVVERTYVS (hm?) 15:02, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Like the Roman Empire, and most large empires at the time. Aryamanarora (talk) 17:45, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Original research[]

I've so far found several "political entities" in this list that simply weren't. I've labeled the page {{OR}} since I still have no idea how the list was compiled, an no sources have been cited. QVVERTYVS (hm?) 14:32, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

The starting point was List of Classical Age states and other lists like it. If you find a "political entities" that isn't then removing them is fine-- but since you have done so, the OR label does not apply. I have keep any sources from that list but sometimes there are none for a given time. You can add many sources from the pages they link to, per WP:Be bold. tahc chat 15:03, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
I've done so for a few. There seem to be more problems with specific entries, and I'm in the process of checking more items. QVVERTYVS (hm?) 15:11, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Fair enough, then I'll restore the {{dubious}} tag. So far, all the Celtic tribes and "kingdoms" that I've checked have dubious statehood in this period, and I suspect this holds true for more. QVVERTYVS (hm?) 15:18, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
I am not just sure what you mean by "dubious statehood" but they need not be a state-- they can be any form of political entity. tahc chat 03:52, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Pictish kingdoms[]

The Pictish kingdoms, such as Ce and Cai/Cait, seem to be legendary. See the sources at Kingdom of Ce and Kingdom of Cat. QVVERTYVS (hm?) 15:14, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Good catches. tahc chat 03:53, 19 August 2015 (UTC)